Ath。Iamgladtohearthatyouagreewithme；for，indeed，thedisciplineofpleasureandpainwhich，whenrightlyordered，isaprincipleofeducation，hasbeenoftenrelaxedandcorruptedinhumanlife。AndtheGods，pityingthetoilswhichourraceisborntoundergo，haveappointedholyfestivals，whereinmenalternaterestwithlabour；andhavegiventhemtheMusesandApollo，theleaderoftheMuses，andDionysus，tobecompanionsintheirrevels，thattheymayimprovetheireducationbytakingpartinthefestivalsoftheGods，andwiththeirhelp。Ishouldliketoknowwhetheracommonsayingisinouropiniontruetonatureornot。Formensaythattheyoungofallcreaturescannotbequietintheirbodiesorintheirvoices；theyarealwayswantingtomoveandcryout；someleapingandskipping，andoverflowingwithsportivenessanddelightatsomething，othersutteringallsortsofcries。But，whereastheanimalshavenoperceptionoforderordisorderintheirmovements，thatis，ofrhythmorharmony，astheyarecalled，tous，theGods，who，aswesay，havebeenappointedtobeourcompanionsinthedance，havegiventhepleasurablesenseofharmonyandrhythm；andsotheystirusintolife，andwefollowthem，joininghandstogetherindancesandsongs；andthesetheycallchoruses，whichisatermnaturallyexpressiveofcheerfulness。Shallwebegin，then，withtheacknowledgmentthateducationisfirstgiventhroughApolloandtheMuses？Whatdoyousay？
　　Cle。Iassent。
　　Ath。Andtheuneducatedishewhohasnotbeentrainedinthechorus，andtheeducatedishewhohasbeenwelltrained？
　　Cle。Certainly。
　　Ath。Andthechorusismadeupoftwoparts，danceandsong？
　　Cle。True。
　　Ath。Thenhewhoiswelleducatedwillbeabletosinganddancewell？
　　Cle。Isupposethathewill。
　　Ath。Letussee；whatarewesaying？
　　Cle。What？
　　Ath。Hesingswellanddanceswell；nowmustweaddthathesingswhatisgoodanddanceswhatisgood？
　　Cle。Letusmaketheaddition。
　　Ath。Wewillsupposethatheknowsthegoodtobegood，andthebadtobebad，andmakesuseofthemaccordingly：whichnowisthebettertrainedindancingandmusic-hewhoisabletomovehisbodyandtousehisvoiceinwhatisunderstoodtobetherightmanner，buthasnodelightingoodorhatredofevil；orhewhoisincorrectingestureandvoice，butisrightinhissenseofpleasureandpain，andwelcomeswhatisgood，andisoffendedatwhatisevil？
　　Cle。Thereisagreatdifference，Stranger，inthetwokindsofeducation。
　　Ath。Ifwethreeknowwhatisgoodinsonganddance，thenwetrulyknowalsowhoiseducatedandwhoisuneducated；butifnot，thenwecertainlyshallnotknowwhereinliesthesafeguardofeducation，andwhetherthereisanyornot。
　　Cle。True。
　　Ath。Letusfollowthescentlikehounds，andgoinpursuitofbeautyoffigure，andmelody，andsong，anddance；iftheseescapeus，therewillbenouseintalkingabouttrueeducation，whetherHellenicorbarbarian。
　　Cle。Yes。
　　Ath。Andwhatisbeautyoffigure，orbeautifulmelody？Whenamanlysoulisintrouble，andwhenacowardlysoulisinsimilarcase，aretheylikelytousethesamefiguresandgestures，ortogiveutterancetothesamesounds？
　　Cle。Howcanthey，whentheverycoloursoftheirfacesdiffer？
　　Ath。Good，myfriend；Imayobserve，however，inpassing，thatinmusictherecertainlyarefiguresandtherearemelodies：andmusicisconcernedwithharmonyandrhythm，sothatyoumayspeakofamelodyorfigurehavinggoodrhythmorgoodharmony-thetermiscorrectenough；buttospeakmetaphoricallyofamelodyorfigurehavinga“goodcolour，“asthemastersofchorusesdo，isnotallowable，althoughyoucanspeakofthemelodiesorfiguresofthebraveandthecoward，praisingtheoneandcensuringtheother。Andnottobetedious，letussaythatthefiguresandmelodieswhichareexpressiveofvirtueofsoulorbody，orofimagesofvirtue，arewithoutexceptiongood，andthosewhichareexpressiveofvicearethereverseofgood。
　　Cle。Yoursuggestionisexcellent；andletusanswerthatthesethingsareso。
　　Ath。Oncemore，areallofusequallydelightedwitheverysortofdance？
　　Cle。Farotherwise。
　　Ath。What，then，leadsusastray？Arebeautifulthingsnotthesametousall，oraretheythesameinthemselves，butnotinouropinionofthem？Fornoonewilladmitthatformsofviceinthedancearemorebeautifulthanformsofvirtue，orthathehimselfdelightsintheformsofvice，andothersinamuseofanothercharacter。Andyetmostpersonssay，thattheexcellenceofmusicistogivepleasuretooursouls。Butthisisintolerableandblasphemous；thereis，however，amuchmoreplausibleaccountofthedelusion。
　　Cle。What？
　　Ath。Theadaptationofarttothecharactersofmen。Choricmovementsareimitationsofmannersoccurringinvariousactions，fortunes，dispositions-eachparticularisimitated，andthosetowhomthewords，orsongs，ordancesaresuited，eitherbynatureorhabitorboth，cannothelpfeelingpleasureinthemandapplaudingthem，andcallingthembeautiful。Butthosewhosenatures，orways，orhabitsareunsuitedtothem，cannotdelightinthemorapplaudthem，andtheycallthembase。Thereareothers，again，whosenaturesarerightandtheirhabitswrong，orwhosehabitsarerightandtheirnatureswrong，andtheypraiseonething，butarepleasedatanother。Fortheysaythatalltheseimitationsarepleasant，butnotgood。Andinthepresenceofthosewhomtheythinkwise，theyareashamedofdancingandsinginginthebasermanner，orofdeliberatelylendinganycountenancetosuchproceedings；andyet，theyhaveasecretpleasureinthem。
　　Cle。Verytrue。
　　Ath。Andisanyharmdonetotheloverofviciousdancesorsongs，oranygooddonetotheapproveroftheoppositesortofpleasure？
　　Cle。Ithinkthatthereis。
　　Ath。“Ithink“isnottheword，butIwouldsay，rather，“Iamcertain。“Formusttheynothavethesameeffectaswhenamanassociateswithbadcharacters，whomhelikesandapprovesratherthandislikes，andonlycensuresplayfullybecausehehasasuspicionofhisownbadness？Inthatcase，hewhotakespleasureinthemwillsurelybecomelikethoseinwhomhetakespleasure，eventhoughhebeashamedtopraisethem。Andwhatgreatergoodorevilcananydestinyevermakeusundergo？
　　Cle。Iknowofnone。
　　Ath。Theninacitywhichhasgoodlaws，orinfutureagesistohavethem，bearinginmindtheinstructionandamusementwhicharegivenbymusic，canwesupposethatthepoetsaretobeallowedtoteachinthedanceanythingwhichtheythemselveslike，inthewayofrhythm，ormelody，orwords，totheyoungchildrenofanywell-conditionedparents？Isthepoettotrainhischorusesashepleases，withoutreferencetovirtueorvice？
　　Cle。Thatissurelyquiteunreasonable，andisnottobethoughtof。
　　Ath。AndyethemaydothisinalmostanystatewiththeexceptionofEgypt。
　　Cle。AndwhatarethelawsaboutmusicanddancinginEgypt？
　　Ath。YouwillwonderwhenItellyou：Longagotheyappeartohaverecognizedtheveryprincipleofwhichwearenowspeaking-thattheiryoungcitizensmustbehabituatedtoformsandstrainsofvirtue。Thesetheyfixed，andexhibitedthepatternsofthemintheirtemples；andnopainterorartistisallowedtoinnovateuponthem，ortoleavethetraditionalformsandinventnewones。Tothisday，noalterationisallowedeitherinthesearts，orinmusicatall。Andyouwillfindthattheirworksofartarepaintedormouldedinthesameformswhichtheyhadtenthousandyearsago；-thisisliterallytrueandnoexaggeration-theirancientpaintingsandsculpturesarenotawhitbetterorworsethantheworkofto-day，butaremadewithjustthesameskill。
　　Cle。Howextraordinary!
　　Ath。Ishouldrathersay，Howstatesmanlike，howworthyofalegislator!IknowthatotherthingsinEgyptarenatsowell。ButwhatIamtellingyouaboutmusicistrueanddeservingofconsideration，becauseshowingthatalawgivermayinstitutemelodieswhichhaveanaturaltruthandcorrectnesswithoutanyfearoffailure。Todothis，however，mustbetheworkofGod，orofadivineperson；inEgypttheyhaveatraditionthattheirancientchantswhichhavebeenpreservedforsomanyagesarethecompositionoftheGoddessIsis。Andtherefore，asIwassaying，ifapersoncanonlyfindinanywaythenaturalmelodies，hemayconfidentlyembodytheminafixedandlegalform。Fortheloveofnoveltywhicharisesoutofpleasureinthenewandwearinessoftheold，hasnotstrengthenoughtocorrupttheconsecratedsonganddance，underthepleathattheyhavebecomeantiquated。Atanyrate，theyarefarfrombeingcorruptedinEgypt。
　　Cle。Yourargumentsseemtoproveyourpoint。
　　Ath。Maywenotconfidentlysaythatthetrueuseofmusicandofchoralfestivitiesisasfollows：Werejoicewhenwethinkthatweprosper，andagainwethinkthatweprosperwhenwerejoice？
　　Cle。Exactly。
　　Ath。Andwhenrejoicinginourgoodfortune，weareunabletobestill？
　　Cle。True。
　　Ath。Ouryoungmenbreakforthintodancingandsinging，andwewhoaretheireldersdeemthatwearefulfillingourpartinlifewhenwelookonatthem。Havinglostouragility，wedelightintheirsportsandmerry-making，becausewelovetothinkofourformerselves；andgladlyinstitutecontestsforthosewhoareabletoawakeninusthememoryofouryouth。
　　Cle。Verytrue。
　　Ath。Isitaltogetherunmeaningtosay，asthecommonpeopledoaboutfestivals，thatheshouldbeadjudgedthewisestofmen，andthewinnerofthepalm，whogivesusthegreatestamountofpleasureandmirth？Foronsuchoccasions，andwhenmirthistheorderoftheday，oughtnothetobehonouredmost，and，asIwassaying，bearthepalm，whogivesmostmirthtothegreatestnumber？Nowisthisatruewayofspeakingorofacting？
　　Cle。Possibly。