AndtothatIrejoin：-Omyfather，didyounotwishmetoliveashappilyaspossible？AndyetyoualsoneverceasedtellingmethatI
　　shouldliveasjustlyaspossible。Now，herethegiveroftherule，whetherhebelegislatororfather，willbeinadilemma，andwillinvainendeavourtobeconsistentwithhimself。Butifheweretodeclarethatthejustestlifeisalsothehappiest，everyonehearinghimwouldenquire，ifIamnotmistaken，whatisthatgoodandnobleprincipleinlifewhichthelawapproves，andwhichissuperiortopleasure。Forwhatgoodcanthejustmanhavewhichisseparatedfrompleasure？Shallwesaythatgloryandfame，comingfromGodsandmen，thoughgoodandnoble，areneverthelessunpleasant，andinfamypleasant？Certainlynot，sweetlegislator。Orshallwesaythatthenot-doingofwrongandtherebeingnowrongdoneisgoodandhonourable，althoughthereisnopleasureinit，andthatthedoingwrongispleasant，butevilandbase？
　　Cle。Impossible。
　　Ath。Theviewwhichidentifiesthepleasantandthepleasantandthejustandthegoodandthenoblehasanexcellentmoralandreligioustendency。Andtheoppositeviewismostatvariancewiththedesignsofthelegislator，andis，inhisopinion，infamous；fornoone，ifhecanhelp，willbepersuadedtodothatwhichgiveshimmorepainthanpleasure。Butasdistantprospectsareapttomakeusdizzy，especiallyinchildhood，thelegislatorwilltrytopurgeawaythedarknessandexhibitthetruth；hewillpersuadethecitizens，insomewayorother，bycustomsandpraisesandwords，thatjustandunjustareshadowsonly，andthatinjustice，whichseemsopposedtojustice，whencontemplatedbytheunjustandevilmanappearspleasantandthejustmostunpleasant；butthatfromthejustman’spointofview，theveryoppositeistheappearanceofbothofthem。
　　Cle。True。
　　Ath。Andwhichmaybesupposedtobethetruerjudgment-thatoftheinferiororofthebettersoul？
　　Cle。Surely，thatofthebettersoul。
　　Ath。Thentheunjustlifemustnotonlybemorebaseanddepraved，butalsomoreunpleasantthanthejustandholylife？
　　Cle。Thatseemstobeimpliedinthepresentargument。
　　Ath。Andevensupposingthiswereotherwise，andnotastheargumenthasproven，stillthelawgiver，whoisworthanything，ifheeverventurestotellalietotheyoungfortheirgood，couldnotinventamoreusefulliethanthis，oronewhichwillhaveabettereffectinmakingthemdowhatisright，notoncompulsionbutvoluntarily。
　　Cle。Truth，Stranger，isanoblethingandalasting，butathingofwhichmenarehardtobepersuaded。
　　Ath。AndyetthestoryoftheSidonianCadmus，whichissoimprobable，hasbeenreadilybelieved，andalsoinnumerableothertales。
　　Cle。Whatisthatstory？
　　Ath。Thestoryofarmedmenspringingupafterthesowingofteeth，whichthelegislatormaytakeasaproofthathecanpersuadethemindsoftheyoungofanything；sothathehasonlytoreflectandfindoutwhatbeliefwillbeofthegreatestpublicadvantage，andthenuseallhiseffortstomakethewholecommunityutteroneandthesamewordintheirsongsandtalesanddiscoursesalltheirlifelong。
　　Butifyoudonotagreewithme，thereisnoreasonwhyyoushouldnotargueontheotherside。
　　Cle。Idonotseethatanyargumentcanfairlyberaisedbyeitherofusagainstwhatyouarenowsaying。
　　Ath。ThenextsuggestionwhichIhavetoofferis，thatallourthreechorusesshallsingtotheyoungandtendersoulsofchildren，recitingintheirstrainsallthenoblethoughtsofwhichwehavealreadyspoken，orareabouttospeak；andthesumofthemshallbe，thatthelifewhichisbytheGodsdeemedtobethehappiestisalsothebest；-weshallaffirmthistobeamostcertaintruth；andthemindsofouryoungdiscipleswillbemorelikelytoreceivethesewordsofoursthananyotherswhichwemightaddresstothem。
　　Cle。Iassenttowhatyousay。
　　Ath。Firstwillenterintheirnaturalorderthesacredchoircomposedofchildren，whichistosinglustilytheheaven-taughtlaytothewholecity。Nextwillfollowthechoirofyoungmenundertheageofthirty，whowillcallupontheGodPaeantotestifytothetruthoftheirwords，andwillprayhimtobegracioustotheyouthandtoturntheirhearts。Thirdly，thechoirofeldermen，whoarefromthirtytosixtyyearsofage，willalsosing。Thereremainthosewhoaretoooldtosing，andtheywilltellstories，illustratingthesamevirtues，aswiththevoiceofanoracle。
　　Cle。Whoarethosewhocomposethethirdchoir，Stranger？forIdonotclearlyunderstandwhatyoumeantosayaboutthem。
　　Ath。AndyetalmostallthatIhavebeensayinghassaidwithaviewtothem。
　　Cle。Willyoutrytobealittleplainer？
　　Ath。Iwasspeakingatthecommencementofourdiscourse，asyouwillremember，ofthefierynatureofyoungcreatures：Isaidthattheywereunabletokeepquieteitherinlimborvoice，andthattheycalledoutandjumpedaboutinadisorderlymanner；andthatnootheranimalattainedtoanyperceptionoforder，butmanonly。Nowtheorderofmotioniscalledrhythm，andtheorderofthevoice，inwhichhighandlowaredulymingled，iscalledharmony；andbothtogetheraretermedchoricsong。AndIsaidthattheGodshadpityonus，andgaveusApolloandtheMusestobeourplayfellowsandleadersinthedance；andDionysus，asIdaresaythatyouwillremember，wasthethird。
　　Cle。Iquiteremember。
　　Ath。ThusfarIhavespokenofthechorusofApolloandtheMuses，andIhavestilltospeakoftheremainingchorus，whichisthatofDionysus。
　　Cle。Howisthatarranged？Thereissomethingstrange，atanyrateonfirsthearing，inaDionysiacchorusofoldmen，ifyoureallymeanthatthosewhoareabovethirty，andmaybefifty，orfromfiftytosixtyyearsofage，aretodanceinhishonour。
　　Ath。Verytrue；andthereforeitmustbeshownthatthereisgoodreasonfortheproposal。
　　Cle。Certainly。
　　Ath。Areweagreedthusfar？
　　Cle。Aboutwhat？
　　Ath。Thateverymanandboy，slaveandfree，bothsexes，andthewholecity，shouldneverceasecharmingthemselveswiththestrainsofwhichwehavespoken；andthatthereshouldbeeverysortofchangeandvariationoftheminordertotakeawaytheeffectofsameness，sothatthesingersmayalwaysreceivepleasurefromtheirhymns，andmayneverwearyofthem？
　　Cle。Everyonewillagree。
　　Ath。Where，then，willthatbestpartofourcitywhich，byreasonofageandintelligence，hasthegreatestinfluence，singthesefairestofstrains，whicharetodosomuchgood？Shallwebesofoolishastoletthemoffwhowouldgiveusthemostbeautifulandalsothemostusefulofsongs？
　　Cle。But，saystheargument，wecannotletthemoff。
　　Ath。Thenhowcanwecarryoutourpurposewithdecorum？Willthisbetheway？
　　Cle。What？
　　Ath。Whenamanisadvancinginyears，heisafraidandreluctanttosing；-hehasnopleasureinhisownperformances；andifcompulsionisused，hewillbemoreandmoreashamed，theolderandmorediscreethegrows；-isnotthistrue？
　　Cle。Certainly。
　　Ath。Well，andwillhenotbeyetmoreashamedifhehastostandupandsinginthetheatretoamixedaudience？-andifmoreoverwhenheisrequiredtodoso，liketheotherchoirswhocontendforprizes，andhavebeentrainedunderasingingmaster，heispinchedandhungry，hewillcertainlyhaveafeelingofshameanddiscomfortwhichwillmakehimveryunwillingtoexhibit。
　　Cle。Nodoubt。
　　Ath。How，then，shallwereassurehim，andgethimtosing？Shallwebeginbyenactingthatboysshallnottastewineatalluntiltheyareeighteenyearsofage；wewilltellthemthatfiremustnotbepoureduponfire，whetherinthebodyorinthesoul，untiltheybegintogotowork-thisisaprecautionwhichhastobetakenagainsttheexcitablenessofyouth；-afterwardstheymaytastewineinmoderationuptotheageofthirty，butwhileamanisyoungheshouldabstainaltogetherfromintoxicationandfromexcessofwine；when，atlength，hehasreachedfortyyears，afterdinneratapublicmess，hemayinvitenotonlytheotherGods，butDionysusaboveall，tothemysteryandfestivityoftheeldermen，makinguseofthewinewhichhehasgivenmentolightenthesournessofoldage；thatinagewemayrenewouryouth，andforgetoursorrows；andalsoinorderthatthenatureofthesoul，likeironmeltedinthefire，maybecomesofterandsomoreimpressible。Inthefirstplace，willnotanyonewhoisthusmellowedbemorereadyandlessashamedtosing-Idonotsaybeforealargeaudience，butbeforeamoderatecompany；noryetamongstrangers，butamonghisfamiliars，and，aswehaveoftensaid，tochant，andtoenchant？
　　Cle。Hewillbefarmoreready。
　　Ath。Therewillbenoimproprietyinourusingsuchamethodofpersuadingthemtojoinwithusinsong。
　　Cle。Noneatall。
　　Ath。Andwhatstrainwilltheysing，andwhatmusewilltheyhymn？
　　Thestrainshouldclearlybeonesuitabletothem。
　　Cle。Certainly。
　　Ath。Andwhatstrainissuitableforheroes？Shalltheysingachoricstrain？
　　Cle。Truly，Stranger，weofCreteandLacedaemonknownostrainotherthanthatwhichwehavelearntandbeenaccustomedtosinginourchorus。
　　Ath。Idaresay；foryouhaveneveracquiredtheknowledgeofthemostbeautifulkindofsong，inyourmilitarywayoflife，whichismodelledafterthecamp，andisnotlikethatofdwellersincities；
　　andyouhaveyouryoungmenherdingandfeedingtogetherlikeyoungcolts。Noonetakeshisownindividualcoltanddragshimawayfromhisfellowsagainsthiswill，ragingandfoaming，andgiveshimagroomtoattendtohimalone，andtrainsandrubshimdownprivately，andgiveshimthequalitiesineducationwhichwillmakehimnotonlyagoodsoldier，butalsoagovernorofastateandofcities。Suchanone，aswesaidatfirst，wouldbeagreaterwarriorthanheofwhomTyrtaeussings；andhewouldhonourcourageeverywhere，butalwaysasthefourth，andnotasthefirstpartofvirtue，eitherinindividualsorstates。
　　Cle。Oncemore，Stranger，Imustcomplainthatyoudepreciateourlawgivers。
　　Ath。Notintentionally，ifatall，mygoodfriend；butwhithertheargumentleads，thitherletusfollow；foriftherebeindeedsomestrainofsongmorebeautifulthanthatofthechorusesorthepublictheatres，Ishouldliketoimpartittothosewho，aswesay，areashamedofthese，andwanttohavethebest。
　　Cle。Certainly。