ButImustalsoremindyou，thatthepowerofdialecticalonecanrevealthis，andonlytoonewhoisadiscipleoftheprevioussciences。
　　Ofthatassertionyoumaybeasconfidentasofthelast。
　　Andassuredlynoonewillarguethatthereisanyothermethodofcomprehendingbyanyregularprocessalltrueexistenceorofascertainingwhateachthingisinitsownnature；fortheartsingeneralareconcernedwiththedesiresoropinionsofmen，orarecultivatedwithaviewtoproductionandconstruction，orforthepreservationofsuchproductionsandconstructions；andastothemathematicalscienceswhich，asweweresaying，havesomeapprehensionoftruebeing——geometryandthelike——theyonlydreamaboutbeing，butnevercantheybeholdthewakingrealitysolongastheyleavethehypotheseswhichtheyuseunexamined，andareunabletogiveanaccountofthem。Forwhenamanknowsnothisownfirstprinciple，andwhentheconclusionandintermediatestepsarealsoconstructedoutofheknowsnotwhat，howcanheimaginethatsuchafabricofconventioncaneverbecomescience？
　　Impossible，hesaid。
　　Thendialectic，anddialecticalone，goesdirectlytothefirstprincipleandistheonlysciencewhichdoesawaywithhypothesesinordertomakehergroundsecure；theeyeofthesoul，whichisliterallyburiedinanoutlandishslough，isbyhergentleaidliftedupwards；andsheusesashandmaidsandhelpersintheworkofconversion，thescienceswhichwehavebeendiscussing。Customtermsthemsciences，buttheyoughttohavesomeothername，implyinggreaterclearnessthanopinionandlessclearnessthanscience：andthis，inourprevioussketch，wascalledunderstanding。Butwhyshouldwedisputeaboutnameswhenwehaverealitiesofsuchimportancetoconsider？
　　Whyindeed，hesaid，whenanynamewilldowhichexpressesthethoughtofthemindwithclearness？
　　Atanyrate，wearesatisfied，asbefore，tohavefourdivisions；
　　twoforintellectandtwoforopinion，andtocallthefirstdivisionscience，thesecondunderstanding，thethirdbelief，andthefourthperceptionofshadows，opinionbeingconcernedwithbecoming，andintellectwithbeing；andsotomakeaproportion：——
　　Asbeingistobecoming，soispureintellecttoopinion。
　　Andasintellectistoopinion，soissciencetobelief，andunderstandingtotheperceptionofshadows。
　　Butletusdeferthefurthercorrelationandsubdivisionofthesubjectsofopinionandofintellect，foritwillbealongenquiry，manytimeslongerthanthishasbeen。
　　AsfarasIunderstand，hesaid，Iagree。
　　Anddoyoualsoagree，Isaid，indescribingthedialecticianasonewhoattainsaconceptionoftheessenceofeachthing？Andhewhodoesnotpossessandisthereforeunabletoimpartthisconception，inwhateverdegreehefails，mayinthatdegreealsobesaidtofailinintelligence？Willyouadmitsomuch？
　　Yes，hesaid；howcanIdenyit？
　　Andyouwouldsaythesameoftheconceptionofthegood？
　　Untilthepersonisabletoabstractanddefinerationallytheideaofgood，andunlesshecanrunthegauntletofallobjections，andisreadytodisprovethem，notbyappealstoopinion，buttoabsolutetruth，neverfalteringatanystepoftheargument——unlesshecandoallthis，youwouldsaythatheknowsneithertheideaofgoodnoranyothergood；heapprehendsonlyashadow，ifanythingatall，whichisgivenbyopinionandnotbyscience；——dreamingandslumberinginthislife，beforeheiswellawakehere，hearrivesattheworldbelow，andhashisfinalquietus。
　　InallthatIshouldmostcertainlyagreewithyou。
　　AndsurelyyouwouldnothavethechildrenofyouridealState，whomyouarenurturingandeducating——iftheidealeverbecomesareality——youwouldnotallowthefuturerulerstobelikeposts，havingnoreasoninthem，andyettobesetinauthorityoverthehighestmatters？
　　Certainlynot。
　　Thenyouwillmakealawthattheyshallhavesuchaneducationaswillenablethemtoattainthegreatestskillinaskingandansweringquestions？
　　Yes，hesaid，youandItogetherwillmakeit。
　　Dialectic，then，asyouwillagree，isthecoping—stoneofthesciences，andissetoverthem；noothersciencecanbeplacedhigher——thenatureofknowledgecannofurthergo？
　　Iagree，hesaid。
　　Buttowhomwearetoassignthesestudies，andinwhatwaytheyaretobeassigned，arequestionswhichremaintobeconsidered？
　　Yes，clearly。
　　Youremember，Isaid，howtherulerswerechosenbefore？
　　Certainly，hesaid。
　　Thesamenaturesmuststillbechosen，andthepreferenceagaingiventothesurestandthebravest，and，ifpossible，tothefairest；
　　and，havingnobleandgeneroustempers，theyshouldalsohavethenaturalgiftswhichwillfacilitatetheireducation。
　　Andwhatarethese？
　　Suchgiftsaskeennessandreadypowersofacquisition；forthemindmoreoftenfaintsfromtheseverityofstudythanfromtheseverityofgymnastics：thetoilismoreentirelythemind’sown，andisnotsharedwiththebody。
　　Verytrue，hereplied。
　　Further，heofwhomweareinsearchshouldhaveagoodmemory，andbeanunweariedsolidmanwhoisaloveroflabourinanyline；orhewillneverbeabletoendurethegreatamountofbodilyexerciseandtogothroughalltheintellectualdisciplineandstudywhichwerequireofhim。
　　Certainly，hesaid；hemusthavenaturalgifts。
　　Themistakeatpresentis，thatthosewhostudyphilosophyhavenovocation，andthis，asIwasbeforesaying，isthereasonwhyshehasfallenintodisrepute：hertruesonsshouldtakeherbythehandandnotbastards。
　　Whatdoyoumean？
　　Inthefirstplace，hervotaryshouldnothavealameorhaltingindustry——Imean，thatheshouldnotbehalfindustriousandhalfidle：as，forexample，whenamanisaloverofgymnasticandhunting，andallotherbodilyexercises，butahaterratherthanaloverofthelabouroflearningorlisteningorenquiring。Ortheoccupationtowhichhedevoteshimselfmaybeofanoppositekind，andhemayhavetheothersortoflameness。
　　Certainly，hesaid。
　　Andastotruth，Isaid，isnotasoulequallytobedeemedhaltandlamewhichhatesvoluntaryfalsehoodandisextremelyindignantatherselfandotherswhentheytelllies，butispatientofinvoluntaryfalsehood，anddoesnotmindwallowinglikeaswinishbeastinthemireofignorance，andhasnoshameatbeingdetected？
　　Tobesure。
　　And，again，inrespectoftemperance，courage，magnificence，andeveryothervirtue，shouldwenotcarefullydistinguishbetweenthetruesonandthebastard？forwherethereisnodiscernmentofsuchqualitiesStatesandindividualsunconsciouslyerrandtheStatemakesaruler，andtheindividualafriend，ofonewho，beingdefectiveinsomepartofvirtue，isinafigurelameorabastard。
　　Thatisverytrue，hesaid。
　　Allthesethings，then，willhavetobecarefullyconsideredbyus；andifonlythosewhomweintroducetothisvastsystemofeducationandtrainingaresoundinbodyandmind，justiceherselfwillhavenothingtosayagainstus，andweshallbethesavioursoftheconstitutionandoftheState；but，ifourpupilsaremenofanotherstamp，thereversewillhappen，andweshallpourastillgreaterfloodofridiculeonphilosophythanshehastoendureatpresent。
　　Thatwouldnotbecreditable。
　　Certainlynot，Isaid；andyetperhaps，inthusturningjestintoearnestIamequallyridiculous。
　　Inwhatrespect？
　　Ihadforgotten，Isaid，thatwewerenotserious，andspokewithtoomuchexcitement。ForwhenIsawphilosophysoundeservedlytrampledunderfootofmenIcouldnothelpfeelingasortofindignationattheauthorsofherdisgrace：andmyangermademetoovehement。
　　Indeed！Iwaslistening，anddidnotthinkso。
　　ButI，whoamthespeaker，feltthatIwas。Andnowletmeremindyouthat，althoughinourformerselectionwechoseoldmen，wemustnotdosointhis。Solonwasunderadelusionwhenhesaidthatamanwhenhegrowsoldmaylearnmanythings——forhecannomorelearnmuchthanhecanrunmuch；youthisthetimeforanyextraordinarytoil。
　　Ofcourse。
　　And，therefore，calculationandgeometryandalltheotherelementsofinstruction，whichareapreparationfordialectic，shouldbepresentedtothemindinchildhood；not，however，underanynotionofforcingoursystemofeducation。
　　Whynot？
　　Becauseafreemanoughtnottobeaslaveintheacquisitionofknowledgeofanykind。Bodilyexercise，whencompulsory，doesnoharmtothebody；butknowledgewhichisacquiredundercompulsionobtainsnoholdonthemind。
　　Verytrue。
　　Then，mygoodfriend，Isaid，donotusecompulsion，butletearlyeducationbeasortofamusement；youwillthenbebetterabletofindoutthenaturalbent。
　　Thatisaveryrationalnotion，hesaid。
　　Doyourememberthatthechildren，too，weretobetakentoseethebattleonhorseback；andthatiftherewerenodangertheyweretobebroughtcloseupand，likeyounghounds，haveatasteofbloodgiventhem？
　　Yes，Iremember。
　　Thesamepracticemaybefollowed，Isaid，inallthesethings——labours，lessons，dangers——andhewhoismostathomeinallofthemoughttobeenrolledinaselectnumber。
　　Atwhatage？
　　Attheagewhenthenecessarygymnasticsareover：theperiodwhetheroftwoorthreeyearswhichpassesinthissortoftrainingisuselessforanyotherpurpose；forsleepandexerciseareunpropitioustolearning；andthetrialofwhoisfirstingymnasticexercisesisoneofthemostimportantteststowhichouryoutharesubjected。
　　Certainly，hereplied。
　　Afterthattimethosewhoareselectedfromtheclassoftwentyyearsoldwillbepromotedtohigherhonour，andthescienceswhichtheylearnedwithoutanyorderintheirearlyeducationwillnowbebroughttogether，andtheywillbeabletoseethenaturalrelationshipofthemtooneanotherandtotruebeing。
　　Yes，hesaid，thatistheonlykindofknowledgewhichtakeslastingroot。
　　Yes，Isaid；andthecapacityforsuchknowledgeisthegreatcriterionofdialecticaltalent：thecomprehensivemindisalwaysthedialectical。
　　Iagreewithyou，hesaid。
　　These，Isaid，arethepointswhichyoumustconsider；andthosewhohavemostofthiscomprehension，andwhoaremoresteadfastintheirlearning，andintheirmilitaryandotherappointedduties，whentheyhavearrivedattheageofthirtyhavetobechosenbyyououtoftheselectclass，andelevatedtohigherhonour；andyouwillhavetoprovethembythehelpofdialectic，inordertolearnwhichofthemisabletogiveuptheuseofsightandtheothersenses，andincompanywithtruthtoattainabsolutebeing：Andhere，myfriend，greatcautionisrequired。
　　Whygreatcaution？
　　Doyounotremark，Isaid，howgreatistheevilwhichdialectichasintroduced？
　　Whatevil？hesaid。
　　Thestudentsoftheartarefilledwithlawlessness。
　　Quitetrue，hesaid。
　　Doyouthinkthatthereisanythingsoveryunnaturalorinexcusableintheircase？orwillyoumakeallowanceforthem？
　　Inwhatwaymakeallowance？
　　Iwantyou，Isaid，bywayofparallel，toimagineasupposititioussonwhoisbroughtupingreatwealth；heisoneofagreatandnumerousfamily，andhasmanyflatterers。Whenhegrowsuptomanhood，helearnsthathisallegedarenothisrealparents；butwhotherealareheisunabletodiscover。Canyouguesshowhewillbelikelytobehavetowardshisflatterersandhissupposedparents，firstofallduringtheperiodwhenheisignorantofthefalserelation，andthenagainwhenheknows？OrshallIguessforyou？
　　Ifyouplease。
　　ThenIshouldsay，thatwhileheisignorantofthetruthhewillbelikelytohonourhisfatherandhismotherandhissupposedrelationsmorethantheflatterers；hewillbelessinclinedtoneglectthemwheninneed，ortodoorsayanythingagainstthem；
　　andhewillbelesswillingtodisobeytheminanyimportantmatter。
　　Hewill。
　　Butwhenhehasmadethediscovery，Ishouldimaginethathewoulddiminishhishonourandregardforthem，andwouldbecomemoredevotedtotheflatterers；theirinfluenceoverhimwouldgreatlyincrease；hewouldnowliveaftertheirways，andopenlyassociatewiththem，and，unlesshewereofanunusuallygooddisposition，hewouldtroublehimselfnomoreabouthissupposedparentsorotherrelations。
　　Well，allthatisveryprobable。Buthowistheimageapplicabletothedisciplesofphilosophy？
　　Inthisway：youknowthattherearecertainprinciplesaboutjusticeandhonour，whichweretaughtusinchildhood，andundertheirparentalauthoritywehavebeenbroughtup，obeyingandhonouringthem。
　　Thatistrue。
　　Therearealsooppositemaximsandhabitsofpleasurewhichflatterandattractthesoul，butdonotinfluencethoseofuswhohaveanysenseofright，andtheycontinuetoobeyandhonourthemaximsoftheirfathers。
　　True。
　　Now，whenamanisinthisstate，andthequestioningspiritaskswhatisfairorhonourable，andheanswersasthelegislatorhastaughthim，andthenargumentsmanyanddiverserefutehiswords，untilheisdrivenintobelievingthatnothingishonourableanymorethandishonourable，orjustandgoodanymorethanthereverse，andsoofallthenotionswhichhemostvalued，doyouthinkthathewillstillhonourandobeythemasbefore？
　　Impossible。
　　Andwhenheceasestothinkthemhonourableandnaturalasheretofore，andhefailstodiscoverthetrue，canhebeexpectedtopursueanylifeotherthanthatwhichflattershisdesires？
　　Hecannot。
　　Andfrombeingakeeperofthelawheisconvertedintoabreakerofit？
　　Unquestionably。
　　NowallthisisverynaturalinstudentsofphilosophysuchasI
　　havedescribed，andalso，asIwasjustnowsaying，mostexcusable。
　　Yes，hesaid；and，Imayadd，pitiable。
　　Therefore，thatyourfeelingsmaynotbemovedtopityaboutourcitizenswhoarenowthirtyyearsofage，everycaremustbetakeninintroducingthemtodialectic。
　　Certainly。
　　Thereisadangerlesttheyshouldtastethedeardelighttooearly；
　　foryoungsters，asyoumayhaveobserved，whentheyfirstgetthetasteintheirmouths，argueforamusement，andarealwayscontradictingandrefutingothersinimitationofthosewhorefutethem；likepuppy—dogs，theyrejoiceinpullingandtearingatallwhocomenearthem。
　　Yes，hesaid，thereisnothingwhichtheylikebetter。
　　Andwhentheyhavemademanyconquestsandreceiveddefeatsatthehandsofmany，theyviolentlyandspeedilygetintoawayofnotbelievinganythingwhichtheybelievedbefore，andhence，notonlythey，butphilosophyandallthatrelatestoitisapttohaveabadnamewiththerestoftheworld。
　　Tootrue，hesaid。
　　Butwhenamanbeginstogetolder，hewillnolongerbeguiltyofsuchinsanity；hewillimitatethedialecticianwhoisseekingfortruth，andnottheeristic，whoiscontradictingforthesakeofamusement；andthegreatermoderationofhischaracterwillincreaseinsteadofdiminishingthehonourofthepursuit。
　　Verytrue，hesaid。
　　Anddidwenotmakespecialprovisionforthis，whenwesaidthatthedisciplesofphilosophyweretobeorderlyandsteadfast，not，asnow，anychanceaspirantorintruder？
　　Verytrue。
　　Suppose，Isaid，thestudyofphilosophytotaketheplaceofgymnasticsandtobecontinueddiligentlyandearnestlyandexclusivelyfortwicethenumberofyearswhichwerepassedinbodilyexercise——willthatbeenough？
　　Wouldyousaysixorfouryears？heasked。
　　Sayfiveyears，Ireplied；attheendofthetimetheymustbesentdownagainintothedenandcompelledtoholdanymilitaryorotherofficewhichyoungmenarequalifiedtohold：inthiswaytheywillgettheirexperienceoflife，andtherewillbeanopportunityoftryingwhether，whentheyaredrawnallmannerofwaysbytemptation，theywillstandfirmorflinch。
　　Andhowlongisthisstageoftheirlivestolast？
　　Fifteenyears，Ianswered；andwhentheyhavereachedfiftyyearsofage，thenletthosewhostillsurviveandhavedistinguishedthemselvesineveryactionoftheirlivesandineverybranchofknowledgecomeatlasttotheirconsummation；thetimehasnowarrivedatwhichtheymustraisetheeyeofthesoultotheuniversallightwhichlightensallthings，andbeholdtheabsolutegood；forthatisthe，patternaccordingtowhichtheyaretoordertheStateandthelivesofindividuals，andtheremainderoftheirownlivesalso；
　　makingphilosophytheirchiefpursuit，but，whentheirturncomes，toilingalsoatpoliticsandrulingforthepublicgood，notasthoughtheywereperformingsomeheroicaction，butsimplyasamatterofduty；andwhentheyhavebroughtupineachgenerationotherslikethemselvesandleftthemintheirplacetobegovernorsoftheState，thentheywilldeparttotheIslandsoftheBlestanddwellthere；andthecitywillgivethempublicmemorialsandsacrificesandhonourthem，ifthePythianoracleconsent，asdemi—gods，butifnot，asinanycaseblessedanddivine。
　　Youareasculptor，Socrates，andhavemadestatuesofourgovernorsfaultlessinbeauty。
　　Yes，Isaid，Glaucon，andofourgovernessestoo；foryoumustnotsupposethatwhatIhavebeensayingappliestomenonlyandnottowomenasfarastheirnaturescango。
　　Thereyouareright，hesaid，sincewehavemadethemtoshareinallthingslikethemen。
　　Well，Isaid，andyouwouldagree（wouldyounot？）thatwhathasbeensaidabouttheStateandthegovernmentisnotameredream，andalthoughdifficultnotimpossible，butonlypossibleinthewaywhichhasbeensupposed；thatistosay，whenthetruephilosopherkingsareborninaState，oneormoreofthem，despisingthehonoursofthispresentworldwhichtheydeemmeanandworthless，esteemingaboveallthingsrightandthehonourthatspringsfromright，andregardingjusticeasthegreatestandmostnecessaryofallthings，whoseministerstheyare，andwhoseprincipleswillbeexaltedbythemwhentheysetinordertheirowncity？
　　Howwilltheyproceed？
　　Theywillbeginbysendingoutintothecountryalltheinhabitantsofthecitywhoaremorethantenyearsold，andwilltakepossessionoftheirchildren，whowillbeunaffectedbythehabitsoftheirparents；thesetheywilltrainintheirownhabitsandlaws，Imeaninthelawswhichwehavegiventhem：andinthiswaytheStateandconstitutionofwhichwewerespeakingwillsoonestandmosteasilyattainhappiness，andthenationwhichhassuchaconstitutionwillgainmost。
　　Yes，thatwillbethebestway。AndIthink，Socrates，thatyouhaveverywelldescribedhow，ifever，suchaconstitutionmightcomeintobeing。
　　EnoughthenoftheperfectState，andofthemanwhobearsitsimage——thereisnodifficultyinseeinghowweshalldescribehim。
　　Thereisnodifficulty，hereplied；andIagreewithyouinthinkingthatnothingmoreneedbesaid。
　　BOOKVIII
　　SOCRATES—GLAUCON
　　ANDso，Glaucon，wehavearrivedattheconclusionthatintheperfectStatewivesandchildrenaretobeincommon；andthatalleducationandthepursuitsofwarandpeacearealsotobecommon，andthebestphilosophersandthebravestwarriorsaretobetheirkings？
　　That，repliedGlaucon，hasbeenacknowledged。
　　Yes，Isaid；andwehavefurtheracknowledgedthatthegovernors，whenappointedthemselves，willtaketheirsoldiersandplacetheminhousessuchasweweredescribing，whicharecommontoall，andcontainnothingprivate，orindividual；andabouttheirproperty，yourememberwhatweagreed？
　　Yes，Irememberthatnoonewastohaveanyoftheordinarypossessionsofmankind；theyweretobewarriorathletesandguardians，receivingfromtheothercitizens，inlieuofannualpayment，onlytheirmaintenance，andtheyweretotakecareofthemselvesandofthewholeState。
　　True，Isaid；andnowthatthisdivisionofourtaskisconcluded，letusfindthepointatwhichwedigressed，thatwemayreturnintotheoldpath。
　　Thereisnodifficultyinreturning；youimplied，thenasnow，thatyouhadfinishedthedescriptionoftheState：yousaidthatsuchaStatewasgood，andthatthemanwasgoodwhoansweredtoit，although，asnowappears，youhadmoreexcellentthingstorelatebothofStateandman。Andyousaidfurther，thatifthiswasthetrueform，thentheotherswerefalse；andofthefalseforms，yousaid，asIremember，thattherewerefourprincipalones，andthattheirdefects，andthedefectsoftheindividualscorrespondingtothem，wereworthexamining。Whenwehadseenalltheindividuals，andfinallyagreedastowhowasthebestandwhowastheworstofthem，weweretoconsiderwhetherthebestwasnotalsothehappiest，andtheworstthemostmiserable。Iaskedyouwhatwerethefourformsofgovernmentofwhichyouspoke，andthenPolemarchusandAdeimantusputintheirword；andyoubeganagain，andhavefoundyourwaytothepointatwhichwehavenowarrived。
　　Yourrecollection，Isaid，ismostexact。
　　Then，likeawrestler，hereplied，youmustputyourselfagaininthesameposition；andletmeaskthesamequestions，anddoyougivemethesameanswerwhichyouwereabouttogivemethen。
　　Yes，ifIcan，Iwill，Isaid。
　　Ishallparticularlywishtohearwhatwerethefourconstitutionsofwhichyouwerespeaking。
　　Thatquestion，Isaid，iseasilyanswered：thefourgovernmentsofwhichIspoke，sofarastheyhavedistinctnames，are，first，thoseofCreteandSparta，whicharegenerallyapplauded；whatistermedoligarchycomesnext；thisisnotequallyapproved，andisaformofgovernmentwhichteemswithevils：thirdly，democracy，whichnaturallyfollowsoligarchy，althoughverydifferent：andlastlycomestyranny，greatandfamous，whichdiffersfromthemall，andisthefourthandworstdisorderofaState。Idonotknow，doyou？ofanyotherconstitutionwhichcanbesaidtohaveadistinctcharacter。
　　Therearelordshipsandprincipalitieswhichareboughtandsold，andsomeotherintermediateformsofgovernment。ButthesearenondescriptsandmaybefoundequallyamongHellenesandamongbarbarians。
　　Yes，hereplied，wecertainlyhearofmanycuriousformsofgovernmentwhichexistamongthem。
　　Doyouknow，Isaid，thatgovernmentsvaryasthedispositionsofmenvary，andthattheremustbeasmanyoftheoneasthereareoftheother？ForwecannotsupposethatStatesaremadeof’oakandrock，’andnotoutofthehumannatureswhichareinthem，andwhichinafigureturnthescaleanddrawotherthingsafterthem？
　　Yes，hesaid，theStatesareasthemenare；theygrowoutofhumancharacters。
　　TheniftheconstitutionsofStatesarefive，thedispositionsofindividualmindswillalsobefive？
　　Certainly。
　　Himwhoanswerstoaristocracy，andwhomwerightlycalljustandgood，wehavealreadydescribed。
　　Wehave。