Cle。Whatdoyoumean?
Ath。Letusselectofthetenmotionstheonewhichmindchieflyresembles;thisIwillbringtoyourrecollection,andwillthenmaketheansweronbehalfofusall。
Cle。Thatwillbeexcellent。
Ath。Youwillsurelyrememberoursayingthatallthingswereeitheratrestorinmotion?
Cle。Ido。
Ath。Andthatofthingsinmotionsomeweremovinginoneplace,andothersinmorethanone?
Cle。Yes。
Ath。Ofthesetwokindsofmotion,thatwhichmovesinoneplacemustmoveaboutacentrelikeglobesmadeinalathe,andismostentirelyakinandsimilartothecircularmovementofmind。
Cle。Whatdoyoumean?
Ath。Insayingthatbothmindandthemotionwhichisinoneplacemoveinthesameandlikemanner,inandaboutthesame,andinrelationtothesame,andaccordingtooneproportionandorder,andarelikethemotionofaglobe,weinventedafairimage,whichdoesnodiscredittoouringenuity。
Cle。Itdoesusgreatcredit。
Ath。Andthemotionoftheothersortwhichisnotafterthesamemanner,norinthesame,noraboutthesame,norinrelationtothesame,norinoneplace,norinorder,noraccordingtoanyruleorproportion,maybesaidtobeakintosenselessnessandfolly?
Cle。Thatismosttrue。
Ath。Then,afterwhathasbeensaid,thereisnodifficultyindistinctlystating,thatsincesoulcarriesallthingsround,eitherthebestsoulorthecontrarymustofnecessitycarryroundandorderandarrangetherevolutionoftheheaven。
Cle。Andjudgingfromwhathasbeensaid,Stranger,therewouldbeimpietyinassertingthatanybutthemostperfectsoulorsoulscarriesroundtheheavens。
Ath。Youhaveunderstoodmymeaningrightwell,Cleinias,andnowletmeaskyouanotherquestion。
Cle。Whatareyougoingtoask?
Ath。Ifthesoulcarriesroundthesunandmoon,andtheotherstars,doesshenotcarryroundeachindividualofthem?
Cle。Certainly。
Ath。Thenofoneofthemletusspeak,andthesameargumentwillapplytoall。
Cle。Whichwillyoutake?
Ath。Everyoneseesthebodyofthesun,butnooneseeshissoul,northesoulofanyotherbodylivingordead;andyetthereisgreatreasontobelievethatthisnature,unperceivedbyanyofoursenses,iscircumfusedaroundthemall,butisperceivedbymind;
andthereforebymindandreflectiononlyletusapprehendthefollowingpoint。
Cle。Whatisthat?
Ath。Ifthesoulcarriesroundthesun,weshallnotbefarwronginsupposingoneofthreealternatives。
Cle。Whatarethey?
Ath。Eitherthesoulwhichmovesthesunthiswayandthat,resideswithinthecircularandvisiblebody,likethesoulwhichcarriesusabouteveryway;orthesoulprovidesherselfwithanexternalbodyoffireorair,assomeaffirm,andviolentlypropelsbodybybody;orthirdly,sheiswithoutsuchabody,butguidesthesunbysomeextraordinaryandwonderfulpower。
Cle。Yes,certainly;thesoulcanonlyorderallthingsinoneofthesethreeways。
Ath。Andthissoulofthesun,whichisthereforebetterthanthesun,whethertakingthesunaboutinachariottogivelighttomen,oractingfromwithoutorinwhateverway,oughtbyeverymantobedeemedaGod。
Cle。Yes,byeverymanwhohastheleastparticleofsense。
Ath。Andofthestarstoo,andofthemoon,andoftheyearsandmonthsandseasons,mustwenotsayinlikemanner,thatsinceasoulorsoulshavingeverysortofexcellencearethecausesofallofthem,thosesoulsareGods,whethertheyarelivingbeingsandresideinbodies,andinthiswayorderthewholeheaven,orwhateverbetheplaceandmodeoftheirexistence;-andwillanyonewhoadmitsallthisventuretodenythatallthingsfullofGods?
Cle。Noone,Stranger,wouldbesuchamadman。
Ath。Andnow,MegillusandCleinias,letusoffertermstohimwhohashithertodeniedtheexistenceoftheGods,andleavehim。
Cle。Whatterms?
Ath。Eitherheshallteachusthatwewerewronginsayingthatthesoulistheoriginalofallthings,andarguingaccordingly;or,ifhebenotabletosayanythingbetter,thenhemustyieldtousandlivefortheremainderofhislifeinthebeliefthatthereareGods-Letussee,then,whetherwehavesaidenoughornotenoughtothosewhodenythatthereareGods。
Cle。Certainly-quiteenough,Stranger。
Ath。Thentothemwewillsaynomore。Andnowwearetoaddresshimwho,believingthatthereareGods,believesalsothattheytakenoheedofhumanaffairs:Tohimwesay-Othoubestofmen,inbelievingthatthereareGodsyouareledbysomeaffinitytothem,whichattractsyoutowardsyourkindredandmakesyouhonourandbelieveinthem。Butthefortunesofevilandunrighteousmeninprivateaswellaspubliclife,which,thoughnotreallyhappy,arewronglycountedhappyinthejudgmentofmen,andarecelebratedbothbypoetsandprosewriters-thesedrawyouasidefromyournaturalpiety。Perhapsyouhaveseenimpiousmengrowingoldandleavingtheirchildren’schildreninhighoffices,andtheirprosperityshakesyourfaith-youhaveknownorheardorbeenyourselfaneyewitnessofmanymonstrousimpieties,andhavebeheldmenbysuchcriminalmeansfromsmallbeginningsattainingtosovereigntyandthepinnacleofgreatness;andconsideringallthesethingsyoudonotliketoaccusetheGodsofthem,becausetheyareyourrelatives;
andsofromsomewantofreasoningpower,andalsofromanunwillingnesstofindfaultwiththem,youhavecometobelievethattheyexistindeed,buthavenothoughtorcareofhumanthings。Now,thatyourpresentevilopinionmaynotgrowtostillgreaterimpiety,andthatwemayifpossibleuseargumentswhichmayconjureawaytheevilbeforeitarrives,wewilladdanotherargumenttothatoriginallyaddressedtohimwhoutterlydeniedtheexistenceoftheGods。Anddoyou,MegillusandCleinias,answerfortheyoungmanasyoudidbefore;andifanyimpedimentcomesinourway,I
willtakethewordoutofyourmouths,andcarryyouovertheriverasIdidjustnow。
Cle。Verygood;doasyousay,andwewillhelpyouaswellaswecan。
Ath。TherewillprobablybenodifficultyinprovingtohimthattheGodscareaboutthesmallaswellasaboutthegreat。Forhewaspresentandheardwhatwassaid,thattheyareperfectlygood,andthatthecareofallthingsismostentirelynaturaltothem。
Cle。Nodoubtheheardthat。
Ath。Letusconsidertogetherinthenextplacewhatwemeanbythisvirtuewhichweascribetothem。Surelyweshouldsaythattobetemperateandtopossessmindbelongstovirtue,andthecontrarytovice?
Cle。Certainly。
Ath。Yes;andcourageisapartofvirtue,andcowardiceofvice?
Cle。True。
Ath。Andtheoneishonourable,andtheotherdishonourable?
Cle。Tobesure。
Ath。Andtheone,likeothermeanerthings,isahumanquality,buttheGodshavenopartinanythingofthesort?
Cle。Thatagainiswhateverybodywilladmit。
Ath。Butdoweimaginecarelessnessandidlenessandluxurytobevirtues?Whatdoyouthink?
Cle。Decidedlynot。
Ath。Theyrankundertheoppositeclass?
Cle。Yes。
Ath。Andtheiropposites,therefore,wouldfallundertheoppositeclass?
Cle。Yes。
Ath。Butarewetosupposethatonewhopossessesallthesegoodqualitieswillbeluxuriousandheedlessandidle,likethosewhomthepoetcomparestostinglessdrones?
Cle。Andthecomparisonisamostjustone。
Ath。SurelyGodmustnotbesupposedtohaveanaturewhichhehimselfhates?-hewhodarestosaythissortofthingmustnotbetoleratedforamoment。
Cle。Ofcoursenot。Howcouldhehave?
Ath。Shouldwenotonanyprinciplebeentirelymistakeninpraisinganyonewhohassomespecialbusinessentrustedtohim,ifhehaveamindwhichtakescareofgreatmattersandnocareofsmallones?
Reflect;hewhoactsinthisway,whetherhebeGodorman,mustactfromoneoftwoprinciples。
Cle。Whatarethey?
Ath。Eitherhemustthinkthattheneglectofthesmallmattersisofnoconsequencetothewhole,orifheknowsthattheyareofconsequence,andheneglectsthem,hisneglectmustbeattributedtocarelessnessandindolence。Isthereanyotherwayinwhichhisneglectcanbeexplained?Forsurely,whenitisimpossibleforhimtotakecareofall,heisnotnegligentifhefailstoattendtothesethingsgreatorsmall,whichaGodorsomeinferiorbeingmightbewantinginstrengthorcapacitytomanage?
Cle。Certainlynot。
Ath。Now,then,letusexaminetheoffenders,whobothalikeconfessthatthereareGods,butwithadifference-theonesayingthattheymaybeappeased,andtheotherthattheyhavenocareofsmallmatters:therearethreeofusandtwoofthem,andwewillsaytothem-Inthefirstplace,youbothacknowledgethattheGodshearandseeandknowallthings,andthatnothingcanescapethemwhichismatterofsenseandknowledge:-doyouadmitthis?
Cle。Yes。
Ath。Anddoyouadmitalsothattheyhaveallpowerwhichmortalsandimmortalscanhave?
Cle。Theywill,ofcourse,admitthisalso。
Ath。Andsurelywethreeandtheytwo-fiveinall-haveacknowledgedthattheyaregoodandperfect?
Cle。Assuredly。
Ath。But,iftheyaresuchasweconceivethemtobe,canwepossiblysupposethattheyeveractinthespiritofcarelessnessandindolence?Forinusinactivityisthechildofcowardice,andcarelessnessofinactivityandindolence。
Cle。Mosttrue。
Ath。ThennotfrominactivityandcarelessnessisanyGodevernegligent;forthereisnocowardiceinthem。
Cle。Thatisverytrue。
Ath。Thenthealternativewhichremainsis,thatiftheGodsneglectthelighterandlesserconcernsoftheuniverse,theyneglectthembecausetheyknowthattheyoughtnottocareaboutsuchmatters-whatotheralternativeistherebuttheoppositeoftheirknowing?
Cle。Thereisnone。