Butistheartofmedicineoranyotherartfaultyordeficientinanyqualityinthesamewaythattheeyemaybedeficientinsightortheearfailofhearing，andthereforerequiresanotherarttoprovidefortheinterestsofseeingandhearing——hasartinitself，I
　　say，anysimilarliabilitytofaultordefect，anddoeseveryartrequireanothersupplementaryarttoprovideforitsinterests，andthatanotherandanotherwithoutend？Orhavetheartstolookonlyaftertheirowninterests？Orhavetheynoneedeitherofthemselvesorofanother？——havingnofaultsordefects，theyhavenoneedtocorrectthem，eitherbytheexerciseoftheirownartorofanyother；
　　theyhaveonlytoconsidertheinterestoftheirsubject—matter。Foreveryartremainspureandfaultlesswhileremainingtrue——thatistosay，whileperfectandunimpaired。Takethewordsinyourprecisesense，andtellmewhetherIamnotright。"
　　Yes，clearly。
　　Thenmedicinedoesnotconsidertheinterestofmedicine，buttheinterestofthebody？
　　True，hesaid。
　　Nordoestheartofhorsemanshipconsidertheinterestsoftheartofhorsemanship，buttheinterestsofthehorse；neitherdoanyotherartscareforthemselves，fortheyhavenoneeds；theycareonlyforthatwhichisthesubjectoftheirart？
　　True，hesaid。
　　Butsurely，Thrasymachus，theartsarethesuperiorsandrulersoftheirownsubjects？
　　Tothisheassentedwithagooddealofreluctance。
　　Then，Isaid，noscienceorartconsidersorenjoinstheinterestofthestrongerorsuperior，butonlytheinterestofthesubjectandweaker？
　　Hemadeanattempttocontestthispropositionalso，butfinallyacquiesced。
　　Then，Icontinued，nophysician，insofarasheisaphysician，considershisowngoodinwhatheprescribes，butthegoodofhispatient；forthetruephysicianisalsoarulerhavingthehumanbodyasasubject，andisnotameremoney—maker；thathasbeenadmitted？
　　Yes。
　　Andthepilotlikewise，inthestrictsenseoftheterm，isarulerofsailorsandnotameresailor？
　　Thathasbeenadmitted。
　　Andsuchapilotandrulerwillprovideandprescribefortheinterestofthesailorwhoisunderhim，andnotforhisownortheruler’sinterest？
　　Hegaveareluctant’Yes。’
　　Then，Isaid，Thrasymachus，thereisnooneinanyrulewho，insofarasheisaruler，considersorenjoinswhatisforhisowninterest，butalwayswhatisfortheinterestofhissubjectorsuitabletohisart；tothathelooks，andthataloneheconsidersineverythingwhichhesaysanddoes。
　　Whenwehadgottothispointintheargument，andeveryonesawthatthedefinitionofjusticehadbeencompletelyupset，Thrasymachus，insteadofreplyingtome，said：Tellme，Socrates，haveyougotanurse？
　　Whydoyouasksuchaquestion，Isaid，whenyououghtrathertobeanswering？
　　Becausesheleavesyoutosnivel，andneverwipesyournose：shehasnoteventaughtyoutoknowtheshepherdfromthesheep。
　　Whatmakesyousaythat？Ireplied。
　　Becauseyoufancythattheshepherdorneatherdfattensoftendsthesheeporoxenwithaviewtotheirowngoodandnottothegoodofhimselforhismaster；andyoufurtherimaginethattherulersofstates，iftheyaretruerulers，neverthinkoftheirsubjectsassheep，andthattheyarenotstudyingtheirownadvantagedayandnight。Oh，no；andsoentirelyastrayareyouinyourideasaboutthejustandunjustasnoteventoknowthatjusticeandthejustareinrealityanother’sgood；thatistosay，theinterestoftherulerandstronger，andthelossofthesubjectandservant；andinjusticetheopposite；fortheunjustislordoverthetrulysimpleandjust：heisthestronger，andhissubjectsdowhatisforhisinterest，andministertohishappiness，whichisveryfarfrombeingtheirown。Considerfurther，mostfoolishSocrates，thatthejustisalwaysaloserincomparisonwiththeunjust。Firstofall，inprivatecontracts：wherevertheunjustisthepartnerofthejustyouwillfindthat，whenthepartnershipisdissolved，theunjustmanhasalwaysmoreandthejustless。Secondly，intheirdealingswiththeState：whenthereisanincometax，thejustmanwillpaymoreandtheunjustlessonthesameamountofincome；andwhenthereisanythingtobereceivedtheonegainsnothingandtheothermuch。Observealsowhathappenswhentheytakeanoffice；thereisthejustmanneglectinghisaffairsandperhapssufferingotherlosses，andgettingnothingoutofthepublic，becauseheisjust；moreoverheishatedbyhisfriendsandacquaintanceforrefusingtoservetheminunlawfulways。Butallthisisreversedinthecaseoftheunjustman。
　　Iamspeaking，asbefore，ofinjusticeonalargescaleinwhichtheadvantageoftheunjustismoreapparent；andmymeaningwillbemostclearlyseenifweturntothathighestformofinjusticeinwhichthecriminalisthehappiestofmen，andthesufferersorthosewhorefusetodoinjusticearethemostmiserable——thatistosaytyranny，whichbyfraudandforcetakesawaythepropertyofothers，notlittlebylittlebutwholesale；comprehendinginone，thingssacredaswellasprofane，privateandpublic；forwhichactsofwrong，ifheweredetectedperpetratinganyoneofthemsingly，hewouldbepunishedandincurgreatdisgrace——theywhodosuchwronginparticularcasesarecalledrobbersoftemples，andman—stealersandburglarsandswindlersandthieves。Butwhenamanbesidestakingawaythemoneyofthecitizenshasmadeslavesofthem，then，insteadofthesenamesofreproach，heistermedhappyandblessed，notonlybythecitizensbutbyallwhohearofhishavingachievedtheconsummationofinjustice。Formankindcensureinjustice，fearingthattheymaybethevictimsofitandnotbecausetheyshrinkfromcommittingit。Andthus，asIhaveshown，Socrates，injustice，whenonasufficientscale，hasmorestrengthandfreedomandmasterythanjustice；and，asIsaidatfirst，justiceistheinterestofthestronger，whereasinjusticeisaman’sownprofitandinterest。
　　Thrasymachus，whenhehadthusspoken，having，likeabathman，delugedourearswithhiswords，hadamindtogoaway。Butthecompanywouldnotlethim；theyinsistedthatheshouldremainanddefendhisposition；andImyselfaddedmyownhumblerequestthathewouldnotleaveus。Thrasymachus，Isaidtohim，excellentman，howsuggestiveareyourremarks！Andareyougoingtorunawaybeforeyouhavefairlytaughtorlearnedwhethertheyaretrueornot？Istheattempttodeterminethewayofman’slifesosmallamatterinyoureyes——todeterminehowlifemaybepassedbyeachoneofustothegreatestadvantage？
　　AnddoIdifferfromyou，hesaid，astotheimportanceoftheenquiry？
　　Youappearrather，Ireplied，tohavenocareorthoughtaboutus，Thrasymachus——whetherwelivebetterorworsefromnotknowingwhatyousayyouknow，istoyouamatterofindifference。Prithee，friend，donotkeepyourknowledgetoyourself；wearealargeparty；andanybenefitwhichyouconferuponuswillbeamplyrewarded。FormyownpartIopenlydeclarethatIamnotconvinced，andthatIdonotbelieveinjusticetobemoregainfulthanjustice，evenifuncontrolledandallowedtohavefreeplay。For，grantingthattheremaybeanunjustmanwhoisabletocommitinjusticeeitherbyfraudorforce，stillthisdoesnotconvincemeofthesuperioradvantageofinjustice，andtheremaybeotherswhoareinthesamepredicamentwithmyself。Perhapswemaybewrong；ifso，youinyourwisdomshouldconvinceusthatwearemistakeninpreferringjusticetoinjustice。
　　AndhowamItoconvinceyou，hesaid，ifyouarenotalreadyconvincedbywhatIhavejustsaid；whatmorecanIdoforyou？
　　Wouldyouhavemeputtheproofbodilyintoyoursouls？
　　Heavenforbid！Isaid；Iwouldonlyaskyoutobeconsistent；or，ifyouchange，changeopenlyandlettherebenodeception。ForImustremark，Thrasymachus，ifyouwillrecallwhatwaspreviouslysaid，thatalthoughyoubeganbydefiningthetruephysicianinanexactsense，youdidnotobservealikeexactnesswhenspeakingoftheshepherd；youthoughtthattheshepherdasashepherdtendsthesheepnotwithaviewtotheirowngood，butlikeameredinerorbanqueterwithaviewtothepleasuresofthetable；or，again，asatraderforsaleinthemarket，andnotasashepherd。Yetsurelytheartoftheshepherdisconcernedonlywiththegoodofhissubjects；
　　hehasonlytoprovidethebestforthem，sincetheperfectionoftheartisalreadyensuredwheneveralltherequirementsofitaresatisfied。AndthatwaswhatIwassayingjustnowabouttheruler。
　　Iconceivedthattheartoftheruler，consideredasruler，whetherinastateorinprivatelife，couldonlyregardthegoodofhisflockorsubjects；whereasyouseemtothinkthattherulersinstates，thatistosay，thetruerulers，likebeinginauthority。
　　Think！Nay，Iamsureofit。
　　Thenwhyinthecaseoflesserofficesdomennevertakethemwillinglywithoutpayment，unlessundertheideathattheygovernfortheadvantagenotofthemselvesbutofothers？Letmeaskyouaquestion：Arenottheseveralartsdifferent，byreasonoftheireachhavingaseparatefunction？And，mydearillustriousfriend，dosaywhatyouthink，thatwemaymakealittleprogress。
　　Yes，thatisthedifference，hereplied。
　　Andeachartgivesusaparticulargoodandnotmerelyageneralone——medicine，forexample，givesushealth；navigation，safetyatsea，andsoon？
　　Yes，hesaid。
　　Andtheartofpaymenthasthespecialfunctionofgivingpay：butwedonotconfusethiswithotherarts，anymorethantheartofthepilotistobeconfusedwiththeartofmedicine，becausethehealthofthepilotmaybeimprovedbyaseavoyage。Youwouldnotbeinclinedtosay，wouldyou，thatnavigationistheartofmedicine，atleastifwearetoadoptyourexactuseoflanguage？
　　Certainlynot。
　　Orbecauseamanisingoodhealthwhenhereceivespayyouwouldnotsaythattheartofpaymentismedicine？
　　Ishouldsaynot。
　　Norwouldyousaythatmedicineistheartofreceivingpaybecauseamantakesfeeswhenheisengagedinhealing？
　　Certainlynot。
　　Andwehaveadmitted，Isaid，thatthegoodofeachartisspeciallyconfinedtotheart？
　　Yes。
　　Then，iftherebeanygoodwhichallartistshaveincommon，thatistobeattributedtosomethingofwhichtheyallhavethecommonuse？
　　True，hereplied。
　　Andwhentheartistisbenefitedbyreceivingpaytheadvantageisgainedbyanadditionaluseoftheartofpay，whichisnottheartprofessedbyhim？
　　Hegaveareluctantassenttothis。
　　Thenthepayisnotderivedbytheseveralartistsfromtheirrespectivearts。Butthetruthis，thatwhiletheartofmedicinegiveshealth，andtheartofthebuilderbuildsahouse，anotherartattendsthemwhichistheartofpay。Thevariousartsmaybedoingtheirownbusinessandbenefitingthatoverwhichtheypreside，butwouldtheartistreceiveanybenefitfromhisartunlesshewerepaidaswell？
　　Isupposenot。
　　Butdoeshethereforeconfernobenefitwhenheworksfornothing？
　　Certainly，heconfersabenefit。
　　Thennow，Thrasymachus，thereisnolongeranydoubtthatneitherartsnorgovernmentsprovidefortheirowninterests；but，aswewerebeforesaying，theyruleandprovidefortheinterestsoftheirsubjectswhoaretheweakerandnotthestronger——totheirgoodtheyattendandnottothegoodofthesuperior。
　　Andthisisthereason，mydearThrasymachus，why，asIwasjustnowsaying，nooneiswillingtogovern；becausenoonelikestotakeinhandthereformationofevilswhicharenothisconcernwithoutremuneration。For，intheexecutionofhiswork，andingivinghisorderstoanother，thetrueartistdoesnotregardhisowninterest，butalwaysthatofhissubjects；andthereforeinorderthatrulersmaybewillingtorule，theymustbepaidinoneofthreemodesofpayment：money，orhonour，orapenaltyforrefusing。
　　SOCRATES—GLAUCON
　　Whatdoyoumean，Socrates？saidGlaucon。Thefirsttwomodesofpaymentareintelligibleenough，butwhatthepenaltyisIdonotunderstand，orhowapenaltycanbeapayment。
　　Youmeanthatyoudonotunderstandthenatureofthispaymentwhichtothebestmenisthegreatinducementtorule？Ofcourseyouknowthatambitionandavariceareheldtobe，asindeedtheyare，adisgrace？
　　Verytrue。
　　Andforthisreason，Isaid，moneyandhonourhavenoattractionforthem；goodmendonotwishtobeopenlydemandingpaymentforgoverningandsotogetthenameofhirelings，norbysecretlyhelpingthemselvesoutofthepublicrevenuestogetthenameofthieves。
　　Andnotbeingambitioustheydonotcareabouthonour。Whereforenecessitymustbelaiduponthem，andtheymustbeinducedtoservefromthefearofpunishment。Andthis，asIimagine，isthereasonwhytheforwardnesstotakeoffice，insteadofwaitingtobecompelled，hasbeendeemeddishonourable。Nowtheworstpartofthepunishmentisthathewhorefusestoruleisliabletoberuledbyonewhoisworsethanhimself。Andthefearofthis，asIconceive，inducesthegoodtotakeoffice，notbecausetheywould，butbecausetheycannothelp——notundertheideathattheyaregoingtohaveanybenefitorenjoymentthemselves，butasanecessity，andbecausetheyarenotabletocommitthetaskofrulingtoanyonewhoisbetterthanthemselves，orindeedasgood。Forthereisreasontothinkthatifacitywerecomposedentirelyofgoodmen，thentoavoidofficewouldbeasmuchanobjectofcontentionastoobtainofficeisatpresent；thenweshouldhaveplainproofthatthetruerulerisnotmeantbynaturetoregardhisowninterest，butthatofhissubjects；andeveryonewhoknewthiswouldchooserathertoreceiveabenefitfromanotherthantohavethetroubleofconferringone。SofaramIfromagreeingwithThrasymachusthatjusticeistheinterestofthestronger。Thislatterquestionneednotbefurtherdiscussedatpresent；butwhenThrasymachussaysthatthelifeoftheunjustismoreadvantageousthanthatofthejust，hisnewstatementappearstometobeofafarmoreseriouscharacter。Whichofushasspokentruly？Andwhichsortoflife，Glaucon，doyouprefer？
　　Iformypartdeemthelifeofthejusttobethemoreadvantageous，heanswered。
　　DidyouhearalltheadvantagesoftheunjustwhichThrasymachuswasrehearsing？
　　Yes，Iheardhim，hereplied，buthehasnotconvincedme。
　　Thenshallwetrytofindsomewayofconvincinghim，ifwecan，thatheissayingwhatisnottrue？
　　Mostcertainly，hereplied。
　　If，Isaid，hemakesasetspeechandwemakeanotherrecountingalltheadvantagesofbeingjust，andheanswersandwerejoin，theremustbeanumberingandmeasuringofthegoodswhichareclaimedoneitherside，andintheendweshallwantjudgestodecide；butifweproceedinourenquiryaswelatelydid，bymakingadmissionstooneanother，weshallunitetheofficesofjudgeandadvocateinourownpersons。
　　Verygood，hesaid。
　　AndwhichmethoddoIunderstandyoutoprefer？Isaid。
　　Thatwhichyoupropose。
　　Well，then，Thrasymachus，Isaid，supposeyoubeginatthebeginningandanswerme。Yousaythatperfectinjusticeismoregainfulthanperfectjustice？
　　SOCRATES—GLAUCON—THRASYMACHUS
　　Yes，thatiswhatIsay，andIhavegivenyoumyreasons。
　　Andwhatisyourviewaboutthem？Wouldyoucalloneofthemvirtueandtheothervice？
　　Certainly。
　　Isupposethatyouwouldcalljusticevirtueandinjusticevice？
　　Whatacharmingnotion！Solikelytoo，seeingthatIaffirminjusticetobeprofitableandjusticenot。
　　Whatelsethenwouldyousay？
　　Theopposite，hereplied。
　　Andwouldyoucalljusticevice？
　　No，Iwouldrathersaysublimesimplicity。
　　Thenwouldyoucallinjusticemalignity？
　　No；Iwouldrathersaydiscretion。
　　Anddotheunjustappeartoyoutobewiseandgood？
　　Yes，hesaid；atanyratethoseofthemwhoareabletobeperfectlyunjust，andwhohavethepowerofsubduingstatesandnations；butperhapsyouimaginemetobetalkingofcutpurses。
　　Eventhisprofessionifundetectedhasadvantages，thoughtheyarenottobecomparedwiththoseofwhichIwasjustnowspeaking。
　　IdonotthinkthatImisapprehendyourmeaning，Thrasymachus，I
　　replied；butstillIcannothearwithoutamazementthatyouclassinjusticewithwisdomandvirtue，andjusticewiththeopposite。
　　CertainlyIdosoclassthem。
　　Now，Isaid，youareonmoresubstantialandalmostunanswerableground；foriftheinjusticewhichyouweremaintainingtobeprofitablehadbeenadmittedbyyouasbyotherstobeviceanddeformity，ananswermighthavebeengiventoyouonreceivedprinciples；butnowIperceivethatyouwillcallinjusticehonourableandstrong，andtotheunjustyouwillattributeallthequalitieswhichwereattributedbyusbeforetothejust，seeingthatyoudonothesitatetorankinjusticewithwisdomandvirtue。
　　Youhaveguessedmostinfallibly，hereplied。
　　ThenIcertainlyoughtnottoshrinkfromgoingthroughwiththeargumentsolongasIhavereasontothinkthatyou，Thrasymachus，arespeakingyourrealmind；forIdobelievethatyouarenowinearnestandarenotamusingyourselfatourexpense。
　　Imaybeinearnestornot，butwhatisthattoyou？——torefutetheargumentisyourbusiness。
　　Verytrue，Isaid；thatiswhatIhavetodo：Butwillyoubesogoodasansweryetonemorequestion？Doesthejustmantrytogainanyadvantageoverthejust？
　　Farotherwise；ifhedidwouldnotbethesimple，amusingcreaturewhichheis。
　　Andwouldhetrytogobeyondjustaction？
　　Hewouldnot。
　　Andhowwouldheregardtheattempttogainanadvantageovertheunjust；wouldthatbeconsideredbyhimasjustorunjust？
　　Hewouldthinkitjust，andwouldtrytogaintheadvantage；buthewouldnotbeable。
　　Whetherhewouldorwouldnotbeable，Isaid，isnottothepoint。Myquestionisonlywhetherthejustman，whilerefusingtohavemorethananotherjustman，wouldwishandclaimtohavemorethantheunjust？
　　Yes，hewould。
　　Andwhatoftheunjust——doesheclaimtohavemorethanthejustmanandtodomorethanisjustOfcourse，hesaid，forheclaimstohavemorethanallmen。
　　Andtheunjustmanwillstriveandstruggletoobtainmorethantheunjustmanoraction，inorderthathemayhavemorethanall？
　　True。
　　Wemayputthematterthus，Isaid——thejustdoesnotdesiremorethanhislikebutmorethanhisunlike，whereastheunjustdesiresmorethanbothhislikeandhisunlike？
　　Nothing，hesaid，canbebetterthanthatstatement。
　　Andtheunjustisgoodandwise，andthejustisneither？
　　Goodagain，hesaid。
　　Andisnottheunjustlikethewiseandgoodandthejustunlikethem？
　　Ofcourse，hesaid，hewhoisofacertainnature，islikethosewhoareofacertainnature；hewhoisnot，not。
　　Eachofthem，Isaid，issuchashislikeis？
　　Certainly，hereplied。
　　Verygood，Thrasymachus，Isaid；andnowtotakethecaseofthearts：youwouldadmitthatonemanisamusicianandanothernotamusician？
　　Yes。
　　Andwhichiswiseandwhichisfoolish？
　　Clearlythemusicianiswise，andhewhoisnotamusicianisfoolish。
　　Andheisgoodinasfarasheiswise，andbadinasfarasheisfoolish？
　　Yes。
　　Andyouwouldsaythesamesortofthingofthephysician？
　　Yes。
　　Anddoyouthink，myexcellentfriend，thatamusicianwhenheadjuststhelyrewoulddesireorclaimtoexceedorgobeyondamusicianinthetighteningandlooseningthestrings？
　　Idonotthinkthathewould。
　　Buthewouldclaimtoexceedthenon—musician？
　　Ofcourse。
　　Andwhatwouldyousayofthephysician？Inprescribingmeatsanddrinkswouldhewishtogobeyondanotherphysicianorbeyondthepracticeofmedicine？
　　Hewouldnot。
　　Buthewouldwishtogobeyondthenon—physician？
　　Yes。
　　Andaboutknowledgeandignoranceingeneral；seewhetheryouthinkthatanymanwhohasknowledgeeverwouldwishtohavethechoiceofsayingordoingmorethananothermanwhohasknowledge。
　　Wouldhenotrathersayordothesameashislikeinthesamecase？
　　That，Isuppose，canhardlybedenied。
　　Andwhatoftheignorant？wouldhenotdesiretohavemorethaneithertheknowingortheignorant？
　　Idaresay。
　　Andtheknowingiswise？
　　Yes。
　　Andthewiseisgood？
　　True。
　　Thenthewiseandgoodwillnotdesiretogainmorethanhislike，butmorethanhisunlikeandopposite？
　　Isupposeso。
　　Whereasthebadandignorantwilldesiretogainmorethanboth？
　　Yes。
　　Butdidwenotsay，Thrasymachus，thattheunjustgoesbeyondbothhislikeandunlike？Werenottheseyourwords？Theywere。
　　Theywere。
　　Andyoualsosaidthatthelustwillnotgobeyondhislikebuthisunlike？
　　Yes。
　　Thenthejustislikethewiseandgood，andtheunjustliketheevilandignorant？
　　Thatistheinference。
　　Andeachofthemissuchashislikeis？
　　Thatwasadmitted。
　　Thenthejusthasturnedouttobewiseandgoodandtheunjustevilandignorant。
　　Thrasymachusmadealltheseadmissions，notfluently，asIrepeatthem，butwithextremereluctance；itwasahotsummer’sday，andtheperspirationpouredfromhimintorrents；andthenIsawwhatI
　　hadneverseenbefore，Thrasymachusblushing。Aswewerenowagreedthatjusticewasvirtueandwisdom，andinjusticeviceandignorance，Iproceededtoanotherpoint：
　　Well，Isaid，Thrasymachus，thatmatterisnowsettled；butwerewenotalsosayingthatinjusticehadstrength；doyouremember？
　　Yes，Iremember，hesaid，butdonotsupposethatIapproveofwhatyouaresayingorhavenoanswer；ifhoweverIweretoanswer，youwouldbequitecertaintoaccusemeofharanguing；thereforeeitherpermitmetohavemysayout，orifyouwouldratherask，doso，andIwillanswer’Verygood，’astheysaytostory—tellingoldwomen，andwillnod’Yes’and’No。’
　　Certainlynot，Isaid，ifcontrarytoyourrealopinion。
　　Yes，hesaid，Iwill，topleaseyou，sinceyouwillnotletmespeak。Whatelsewouldyouhave？