Thatwilldo，hesaid。
　　Andwhatdoyouthinkofasecondprinciple？ShallIaskyouwhetherGodisamagician，andofanaturetoappearinsidiouslynowinoneshape，andnowinanother——sometimeshimselfchangingandpassingintomanyforms，sometimesdeceivinguswiththesemblanceofsuchtransformations；orisheoneandthesameimmutablyfixedinhisownproperimage？
　　Icannotansweryou，hesaid，withoutmorethought。
　　Well，Isaid；butifwesupposeachangeinanything，thatchangemustbeeffectedeitherbythethingitself，orbysomeotherthing？
　　Mostcertainly。
　　Andthingswhichareattheirbestarealsoleastliabletobealteredordiscomposed；forexample，whenhealthiestandstrongest，thehumanframeisleastliabletobeaffectedbymeatsanddrinks，andtheplantwhichisinthefullestvigouralsosuffersleastfromwindsortheheatofthesunoranysimilarcauses。
　　Ofcourse。
　　Andwillnotthebravestandwisestsoulbeleastconfusedorderangedbyanyexternalinfluence？
　　True。
　　Andthesameprinciple，asIshouldsuppose，appliestoallcompositethings——furniture，houses，garments；whengoodandwellmade，theyareleastalteredbytimeandcircumstances。
　　Verytrue。
　　Theneverythingwhichisgood，whethermadebyartornature，orboth，isleastliabletosufferchangefromwithout？
　　True。
　　ButsurelyGodandthethingsofGodareineverywayperfect？
　　Ofcoursetheyare。
　　Thenhecanhardlybecompelledbyexternalinfluencetotakemanyshapes？
　　Hecannot。
　　Butmayhenotchangeandtransformhimself？
　　Clearly，hesaid，thatmustbethecaseifheischangedatall。
　　Andwillhethenchangehimselfforthebetterandfairer，orfortheworseandmoreunsightly？
　　Ifhechangeatallhecanonlychangefortheworse，forwecannotsupposehimtobedeficienteitherinvirtueorbeauty。
　　Verytrue，Adeimantus；butthen，wouldanyone，whetherGodorman，desiretomakehimselfworse？
　　Impossible。
　　ThenitisimpossiblethatGodshouldeverbewillingtochange；
　　being，asissupposed，thefairestandbestthatisconceivable，everygodremainsabsolutelyandforeverinhisownform。
　　Thatnecessarilyfollows，hesaid，inmyjudgment。
　　Then，Isaid，mydearfriend，letnoneofthepoetstellusthatThegods，takingthedisguiseofstrangersfromotherlands，walkupanddowncitiesinallsortsofforms；
　　andletnooneslanderProteusandThetis，neitherletanyone，eitherintragedyorinanyotherkindofpoetry，introduceHeredisguisedinthelikenessofapriestessaskinganalmsForthelife—givingdaughtersofInachustheriverofArgos；
　　——letushavenomoreliesofthatsort。Neithermustwehavemothersundertheinfluenceofthepoetsscaringtheirchildrenwithabadversionofthesemyths——tellinghowcertaingods，astheysay，’Goaboutbynightinthelikenessofsomanystrangersandindiversforms’；butletthemtakeheedlesttheymakecowardsoftheirchildren，andatthesametimespeakblasphemyagainstthegods。
　　Heavenforbid，hesaid。
　　Butalthoughthegodsarethemselvesunchangeable，stillbywitchcraftanddeceptiontheymaymakeusthinkthattheyappearinvariousforms？
　　Perhaps，hereplied。
　　Well，butcanyouimaginethatGodwillbewillingtolie，whetherinwordordeed，ortoputforthaphantomofhimself？
　　Icannotsay，hereplied。
　　Doyounotknow，Isaid，thatthetruelie，ifsuchanexpressionmaybeallowed，ishatedofgodsandmen？
　　Whatdoyoumean？hesaid。
　　Imeanthatnooneiswillinglydeceivedinthatwhichisthetruestandhighestpartofhimself，oraboutthetruestandhighestmatters；there，aboveall，heismostafraidofaliehavingpossessionofhim。
　　Still，hesaid，Idonotcomprehendyou。
　　Thereasonis，Ireplied，thatyouattributesomeprofoundmeaningtomywords；butIamonlysayingthatdeception，orbeingdeceivedoruninformedaboutthehighestrealitiesinthehighestpartofthemselves，whichisthesoul，andinthatpartofthemtohaveandtoholdthelie，iswhatmankindleastlike；——that，Isay，iswhattheyutterlydetest。
　　Thereisnothingmorehatefultothem。
　　And，asIwasjustnowremarking，thisignoranceinthesoulofhimwhoisdeceivedmaybecalledthetruelie；forthelieinwordsisonlyakindofimitationandshadowyimageofapreviousaffectionofthesoul，notpureunadulteratedfalsehood。AmInotright？
　　Perfectlyright。
　　Thetruelieishatednotonlybythegods，butalsobymen？
　　Yes。
　　Whereasthelieinwordsisincertaincasesusefulandnothateful；
　　indealingwithenemies——thatwouldbeaninstance；oragain，whenthosewhomwecallourfriendsinafitofmadnessorillusionaregoingtodosomeharm，thenitisusefulandisasortofmedicineorpreventive；alsointhetalesofmythology，ofwhichwewerejustnowspeaking——becausewedonotknowthetruthaboutancienttimes，wemakefalsehoodasmuchliketruthaswecan，andsoturnittoaccount。
　　Verytrue，hesaid。
　　ButcananyofthesereasonsapplytoGod？Canwesupposethatheisignorantofantiquity，andthereforehasrecoursetoinvention？
　　Thatwouldberidiculous，hesaid。
　　ThenthelyingpoethasnoplaceinourideaofGod？
　　Ishouldsaynot。
　　Orperhapshemaytellaliebecauseheisafraidofenemies？
　　Thatisinconceivable。
　　Buthemayhavefriendswhoaresenselessormad？
　　ButnomadorsenselesspersoncanbeafriendofGod。
　　ThennomotivecanbeimaginedwhyGodshouldlie？
　　Nonewhatever。
　　Thenthesuperhumananddivineisabsolutelyincapableoffalsehood？
　　Yes。
　　ThenisGodperfectlysimpleandtruebothinwordanddeed；hechangesnot；hedeceivesnot，eitherbysignorword，bydreamorwakingvision。
　　Yourthoughts，hesaid，arethereflectionofmyown。
　　Youagreewithmethen，Isaid，thatthisisthesecondtypeorforminwhichweshouldwriteandspeakaboutdivinethings。Thegodsarenotmagicianswhotransformthemselves，neitherdotheydeceivemankindinanyway。
　　Igrantthat。
　　Then，althoughweareadmirersofHomer，wedonotadmirethelyingdreamwhichZeussendstoAgamemnon；neitherwillwepraisetheversesofAeschylusinwhichThetissaysthatApolloathernuptialsWascelebratinginsongherfairprogenywhosedaysweretohelong，andtoknownosickness。Andwhenhehadspokenofmylotasinallthingsblessedofheavenheraisedanoteoftriumphandcheeredmysoul。AndIthoughtthatthewordofPhoebusbeingdivineandfullofprophecy，wouldnotfail。Andnowhehimselfwhoutteredthestrain，hewhowaspresentatthebanquet，andwhosaidthis——heitiswhohasslainmyson。
　　Thesearethekindofsentimentsaboutthegodswhichwillarouseouranger；andhewhouttersthemshallberefusedachorus；neithershallweallowteacherstomakeuseofthemintheinstructionoftheyoung，meaning，aswedo，thatourguardians，asfarasmencanbe，shouldbetrueworshippersofthegodsandlikethem。
　　Ientirelyagree，besaid，intheseprinciples，andpromisetomakethemmylaws。
　　BOOKIII
　　SOCRATES—ADEIMANTUS
　　SUCHthen，Isaid，areourprinciplesoftheology——sometalesaretobetold，andothersarenottobetoldtoourdisciplesfromtheiryouthupwards，ifwemeanthemtohonourthegodsandtheirparents，andtovaluefriendshipwithoneanother。
　　Yes；andIthinkthatourprinciplesareright，hesaid。
　　Butiftheyaretobecourageous，musttheynotlearnotherlessonsbesidesthese，andlessonsofsuchakindaswilltakeawaythefearofdeath？Cananymanbecourageouswhohasthefearofdeathinhim？
　　Certainlynot，hesaid。
　　Andcanhebefearlessofdeath，orwillhechoosedeathinbattleratherthandefeatandslavery，whobelievestheworldbelowtoberealandterrible？
　　Impossible。
　　Thenwemustassumeacontroloverthenarratorsofthisclassoftalesaswellasovertheothers，andbegthemnotsimplytobutrathertocommendtheworldbelow，intimatingtothemthattheirdescriptionsareuntrue，andwilldoharmtoourfuturewarriors。
　　Thatwillbeourduty，hesaid。
　　Then，Isaid，weshallhavetoobliteratemanyobnoxiouspassages，beginningwiththeverses，Iwouldratherheaserfonthelandofapoorandportionlessmanthanruleoverallthedeadwhohavecometonought。
　　Wemustalsoexpungetheverse，whichtellsushowPlutofeared，Lestthemansionsgrimandsqualidwhichthegodsabhorshouldheseenbothofmortalsandimmortals。
　　Andagain：
　　Oheavens！verilyinthehouseofHadesthereissoulandghostlyformbutnomindatall！
　　AgainofTiresias：——
　　[TohimevenafterdeathdidPersephonegrantmind，]thathealoneshouldbewise；buttheothersoulsareflittingshades。
　　Again：——
　　ThesoulflyingfromthelimbshadgonetoHades，lamentngherfate，leavingmanhoodandyouth。
　　Again：——
　　Andthesoul，withshrillingcry，passedlikesmokebeneaththeearth。
　　And，——
　　Asbatsinhollowofmysticcavern，wheneveranyofthehasdroppedoutofthestringandfallsfromtherock，flyshrillingandclingtooneanother，sodidtheywithshrillingcryholdtogetherastheymoved。
　　AndwemustbegHomerandtheotherpoetsnottobeangryifwestrikeouttheseandsimilarpassages，notbecausetheyareunpoetical，orunattractivetothepopularear，butbecausethegreaterthepoeticalcharmofthem，thelessaretheymeetfortheearsofboysandmenwhoaremeanttobefree，andwhoshouldfearslaverymorethandeath。
　　Undoubtedly。
　　Alsoweshallhavetorejectalltheterribleandappallingnamesdescribetheworldbelow——CocytusandStyx，ghostsundertheearth，andsaplessshades，andanysimilarwordsofwhichtheverymentioncausesashuddertopassthroughtheinmostsoulofhimwhohearsthem。Idonotsaythatthesehorriblestoriesmaynothaveauseofsomekind；butthereisadangerthatthenervesofourguardiansmayberenderedtooexcitableandeffeminatebythem。
　　Thereisarealdanger，hesaid。
　　Thenwemusthavenomoreofthem。
　　True。
　　Anotherandanoblerstrainmustbecomposedandsungbyus。
　　Clearly。
　　Andshallweproceedtogetridoftheweepingsandwailingsoffamousmen？
　　Theywillgowiththerest。
　　Butshallweberightingettingridofthem？Reflect：ourprincipleisthatthegoodmanwillnotconsiderdeathterribletoanyothergoodmanwhoishiscomrade。
　　Yes；thatisourprinciple。
　　Andthereforehewillnotsorrowforhisdepartedfriendasthoughhehadsufferedanythingterrible？
　　Hewillnot。
　　Suchanone，aswefurthermaintain，issufficientforhimselfandhisownhappiness，andthereforeisleastinneedofothermen。
　　True，hesaid。
　　Andforthisreasonthelossofasonorbrother，orthedeprivationoffortune，istohimofallmenleastterrible。
　　Assuredly。
　　Andthereforehewillbeleastlikelytolament，andwillbearwiththegreatestequanimityanymisfortuneofthissortwhichmaybefallhim。
　　Yes，hewillfeelsuchamisfortunefarlessthananother。
　　Thenweshallberightingettingridofthelamentationsoffamousmen，andmakingthemovertowomen（andnoteventowomenwhoaregoodforanything），ortomenofabasersort，thatthosewhoarebeingeducatedbyustobethedefendersoftheircountrymayscorntodothelike。
　　Thatwillbeveryright。
　　ThenwewilloncemoreentreatHomerandtheotherpoetsnottodepictAchilles，whoisthesonofagoddess，firstlyingonhisside，thenonhisback，andthenonhisface；thenstartingupandsailinginafrenzyalongtheshoresofthebarrensea；nowtakingthesootyashesinbothhishandsandpouringthemoverhishead，orweepingandwailinginthevariousmodeswhichHomerhasdelineated。NorshouldhedescribePriamthekinsmanofthegodsasprayingandbeseeching，Rollinginthedirt，callingeachmanloudlybyhisname。
　　Stillmoreearnestlywillwebegofhimatalleventsnottointroducethegodslamentingandsaying，Alas！mymisery！Alas！thatIboretheharvesttomysorrow。
　　Butifhemustintroducethegods，atanyratelethimnotdaresocompletelytomisrepresentthegreatestofthegods，astomakehimsay——
　　Oheavens！withmyeyesverilyIbeholdadearfriendofminechasedroundandroundthecity，andmyheartissorrowful。
　　Oragain：——
　　WoeismethatIamfatedtohaveSarpedon，dearestofmentome，subduedatthehandsofPatroclusthesonofMenoetius。
　　Forif，mysweetAdeimantus，ouryouthseriouslylistentosuchunworthyrepresentationsofthegods，insteadoflaughingatthemastheyought，hardlywillanyofthemdeemthathehimself，beingbutaman，canbedishonouredbysimilaractions；neitherwillherebukeanyinclinationwhichmayariseinhismindtosayanddothelike。
　　Andinsteadofhavinganyshameorself—control，hewillbealwayswhiningandlamentingonslightoccasions。
　　Yes，hesaid，thatismosttrue。
　　Yes，Ireplied；butthatsurelyiswhatoughtnottobe，astheargumenthasjustprovedtous；andbythatproofwemustabideuntilitisdisprovedbyabetter。
　　Itoughtnottobe。
　　Neitheroughtourguardianstobegiventolaughter。Forafitoflaughterwhichhasbeenindulgedtoexcessalmostalwaysproducesaviolentreaction。
　　SoIbelieve。
　　Thenpersonsofworth，evenifonlymortalmen，mustnotberepresentedasovercomebylaughter，andstilllessmustsucharepresentationofthegodsbeallowed。
　　Stilllessofthegods，asyousay，hereplied。
　　ThenweshallnotsuffersuchanexpressiontobeusedaboutthegodsasthatofHomerwhenhedescribeshowInextinguishablelaughteraroseamongtheblessedgods，whentheysawHephaestusbustlingaboutthemansion。
　　Onyourviews，wemustnotadmitthem。
　　Onmyviews，ifyouliketofatherthemonme；thatwemustnotadmitthemiscertain。
　　Again，truthshouldbehighlyvalued；if，asweweresaying，alieisuselesstothegods，andusefulonlyasamedicinetomen，thentheuseofsuchmedicinesshouldberestrictedtophysicians；privateindividualshavenobusinesswiththem。
　　Clearlynot，hesaid。
　　Thenifanyoneatallistohavetheprivilegeoflying，therulersoftheStateshouldbethepersons；andthey，intheirdealingseitherwithenemiesorwiththeirowncitizens，maybeallowedtolieforthepublicgood。Butnobodyelseshouldmeddlewithanythingofthekind；andalthoughtherulershavethisprivilege，foraprivatemantolietotheminreturnistobedeemedamoreheinousfaultthanforthepatientorthepupilofagymnasiumnottospeakthetruthabouthisownbodilyillnessestothephysicianortothetrainer，orforasailornottotellthecaptainwhatishappeningabouttheshipandtherestofthecrew，andhowthingsaregoingwithhimselforhisfellowsailors。
　　Mosttrue，hesaid。
　　If，then，therulercatchesanybodybesidehimselflyingintheState，Anyofthecraftsmen，whetherhepriestorphysicianorcarpenter。
　　hewillpunishhimforintroducingapracticewhichisequallysubversiveanddestructiveofshiporState。
　　Mostcertainly，hesaid，ifourideaoftheStateisevercarriedout。
　　Inthenextplaceouryouthmustbetemperate？
　　Certainly。
　　Arenotthechiefelementsoftemperance，speakinggenerally，obediencetocommandersandself—controlinsensualpleasures？
　　True。
　　ThenweshallapprovesuchlanguageasthatofDiomedeinHomer，Friend，sitstillandobeymyword，andtheverseswhichfollow，TheGreeksmarchedbreathingprowess，……insilentaweoftheirleaders，andothersentimentsofthesamekind。
　　Weshall。
　　Whatofthisline，Oheavywithwine，whohasttheeyesofadogandtheheartofastag，andofthewordswhichfollow？Wouldyousaythatthese，oranysimilarimpertinenceswhichprivateindividualsaresupposedtoaddresstotheirrulers，whetherinverseorprose，arewellorillspoken？
　　Theyareillspoken。
　　Theymayverypossiblyaffordsomeamusement，buttheydonotconducetotemperance。Andthereforetheyarelikelytodoharmtoouryoungmen——youwouldagreewithmethere？
　　Yes。
　　Andthen，again，tomakethewisestofmensaythatnothinginhisopinionismoregloriousthanWhenthetablesarefullofbreadandmeat，andthecup—bearercarriesroundwinewhichhedrawsfromthebowlandpoursintothecups，isitfitorconducivetotemperanceforayoungmantohearsuchwords？OrtheverseThesaddestoffatesistodieandmeetdestinyfromhunger？
　　WhatwouldyousayagaintothetaleofZeus，who，whileothergodsandmenwereasleepandhetheonlypersonawake，laydevisingplans，butforgotthemallinamomentthroughhislust，andwassocompletelyovercomeatthesightofHerethathewouldnotevengointothehut，butwantedtoliewithherontheground，declaringthathehadneverbeeninsuchastateofrapturebefore，evenwhentheyfirstmetoneanotherWithouttheknowledgeoftheirparents；
　　orthatothertaleofhowHephaestus，becauseofsimilargoingson，castachainaroundAresandAphrodite？
　　Indeed，hesaid，Iamstronglyofopinionthattheyoughtnottohearthatsortofthing。
　　Butanydeedsofendurancewhicharedoneortoldbyfamousmen，thesetheyoughttoseeandhear；as，forexample，whatissaidintheverses，Hesmotehisbreast，andthusreproachedhisheart，Endure，myheart；farworsehastthouendured！
　　Certainly，hesaid。
　　Inthenextplace，wemustnotletthembereceiversofgiftsorloversofmoney。
　　Certainlynot。
　　NeithermustwesingtothemofGiftspersuadinggods，andpersuadingreverendkings。
　　NeitherisPhoenix，thetutorofAchilles，tobeapprovedordeemedtohavegivenhispupilgoodcounselwhenhetoldhimthatheshouldtakethegiftsoftheGreeksandassistthem；butthatwithoutagiftheshouldnotlayasidehisanger。NeitherwillwebelieveoracknowledgeAchilleshimselftohavebeensuchaloverofmoneythathetookAgamemnon’sorthatwhenhehadreceivedpaymentherestoredthedeadbodyofHector，butthatwithoutpaymenthewasunwillingtodoso。
　　Undoubtedly，hesaid，thesearenotsentimentswhichcanbeapproved。
　　LovingHomerasIdo，IhardlyliketosaythatinattributingthesefeelingstoAchilles，orinbelievingthattheyaretrulytohim，heisguiltyofdownrightimpiety。AslittlecanIbelievethenarrativeofhisinsolencetoApollo，wherehesays，Thouhastwrongedme，Ofar—darter，mostabominableofdeities。
　　VerilyIwouldheevenwiththee，ifIhadonlythepower，orhisinsubordinationtotheriver—god，onwhosedivinityheisreadytolayhands；orhisofferingtothedeadPatroclusofhisownhair，whichhadbeenpreviouslydedicatedtotheotherriver—godSpercheius，andthatheactuallyperformedthisvow；orthathedraggedHectorroundthetombofPatroclus，andslaughteredthecaptivesatthepyre；
　　ofallthisIcannotbelievethathewasguilty，anymorethanIcanallowourcitizenstobelievethathe，thewiseCheiron’spupil，thesonofagoddessandofPeleuswhowasthegentlestofmenandthirdindescentfromZeus，wassodisorderedinhiswitsastobeatonetimetheslaveoftwoseeminglyinconsistentpassions，meanness，notuntaintedbyavarice，combinedwithoverweeningcontemptofgodsandmen。
　　Youarequiteright，hereplied。
　　Andletusequallyrefusetobelieve，orallowtoberepeated，thetaleofTheseussonofPoseidon，orofPeirithoussonofZeus，goingforthastheydidtoperpetrateahorridrape；orofanyotherheroorsonofagoddaringtodosuchimpiousanddreadfulthingsastheyfalselyascribetotheminourday：andletusfurthercompelthepoetstodeclareeitherthattheseactswerenotdonebythem，orthattheywerenotthesonsofgods；——bothinthesamebreaththeyshallnotbepermittedtoaffirm。Wewillnothavethemtryingtopersuadeouryouththatthegodsaretheauthorsofevil，andthatheroesarenobetterthanmen—sentimentswhich，asweweresaying，areneitherpiousnortrue，forwehavealreadyprovedthatevilcannotcomefromthegods。
　　Assuredlynot。
　　Andfurthertheyarelikelytohaveabadeffectonthosewhohearthem；foreverybodywillbegintoexcusehisownviceswhenheisconvincedthatsimilarwickednessesarealwaysbeingperpetratedby——
　　Thekindredofthegods，therelativesofZeus，whoseancestralaltar，theattarofZeus，isaloftinaironthepeakofIda，andwhohavethebloodofdeitiesyetflowingintheirveins。
　　Andthereforeletusputanendtosuchtales，lesttheyengenderlaxityofmoralsamongtheyoung。
　　Byallmeans，hereplied。
　　Butnowthatwearedeterminingwhatclassesofsubjectsareorarenottobespokenof，letusseewhetheranyhavebeenomittedbyus。Themannerinwhichgodsanddemigodsandheroesandtheworldbelowshouldbetreatedhasbeenalreadylaiddown。
　　Verytrue。
　　Andwhatshallwesayaboutmen？Thatisclearlytheremainingportionofoursubject。
　　Clearlyso。
　　Butwearenotinaconditiontoanswerthisquestionatpresent，myfriend。
　　Whynot？
　　Because，ifIamnotmistaken，weshallhavetosaythataboutmenpoetsandstory—tellersareguiltyofmakingthegravestmisstatementswhentheytellusthatwickedmenareoftenhappy，andthegoodmiserable；andthatinjusticeisprofitablewhenundetected，butthatjusticeisaman’sownlossandanother’sgain——thesethingsweshallforbidthemtoutter，andcommandthemtosingandsaytheopposite。
　　Tobesureweshall，hereplied。
　　ButifyouadmitthatIamrightinthis，thenIshallmaintainthatyouhaveimpliedtheprincipleforwhichwehavebeenallalongcontending。
　　Igrantthetruthofyourinference。
　　Thatsuchthingsareorarenottobesaidaboutmenisaquestionwhichwecannotdetermineuntilwehavediscoveredwhatjusticeis，andhownaturallyadvantageoustothepossessor，whetherheseemstobejustornot。
　　Mosttrue，hesaid。
　　Enoughofthesubjectsofpoetry：letusnowspeakofthestyle；andwhenthishasbeenconsidered，bothmatterandmannerwillhavebeencompletelytreated。
　　Idonotunderstandwhatyoumean，saidAdeimantus。
　　ThenImustmakeyouunderstand；andperhapsImaybemoreintelligibleifIputthematterinthisway。Youareaware，I
　　suppose，thatallmythologyandpoetryisanarrationofevents，eitherpast，present，ortocome？
　　Certainly，hereplied。